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  #21  
Old 07-01-2019, 03:41 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Originally Posted by Altair
No it isnít. The vegetables people eat usually come from lands cleared many centuries ago, and cause(d) far less harm than what any meat production does to the environment and to biodiversity loss. Raising animals means additional forests have to be cleared as the animals need to eat and drink too. It is woefully unsustainable, even more so in today's world and with today's population.

I find that pretty shocking to support all of that, just for some fitness goal and looking nice. You still eat plants as well, as do the animals you eat, so the large food chain you need to be sustained is much more impactful than any veg diet. And even if you were to hunt, it would be a niche market, and not sustainable practice for larger populations. Not to mention, that has other issues, ethical ones, by itself. This isnít 20000 bc any more, weíre living in a highly populated civilized world and you and your choices exist within the context of the latter.



This isn't the vegetarian/vegan section of the forum. If vegetarians/vegans want to talk about plant nutrition, that's great, but most people are not vegans or vegetarians, and they don't necessarily want to be lectured by them.
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  #22  
Old 08-01-2019, 06:57 AM
JustBe JustBe is offline
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That's ok. If you don't think the salmon is right, then don't. Flax, linseed, chia is good enough. The body converts about 5% their ALA omega to th omega we need.






True. You will notice what your body needs much more when you are active. It gets a little bit complicated looking into amino acids, but there are essential amino acids we have to get from food. Veges just need to eat a range of nuts, seeds, legumes, lentils, chickpeas - and tofu and quinoa contain all the essential amino acids.





That's about the healthiest breakfast I've seen. I see some supplements in there which is fine as a 'top up', but not as a replacement for real food.







It all sounds extraordinarily good. Just needs more coffee and lots more wine.

Thanks again.

Iím pretty consistent eating as I do. The beauty of that, is you can splurge if you want every now and then without upsetting your balance. As time has gone by, Iím noticing itís easy to choose healthy anywhere I am, mainly because my body has adjusted long term eating this way, itís not out of Ďhave tooí, Ďi shouldí Ďneed tooí. Itís quite effortless to eat this way.

I notice a lot of my vegetarian friends donít look more closely at the food balance on their plate. Iíve educated myself,about how to incorporate a wider range of foods to achieve that. Plus ensuring you keep that balance of food groups going more consistently

As for the fish. I would eat it regularly if I knew it was a clean and not a contaminated, source. Deep sea fish seems to be a favourite Ďsafeí source.
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  #23  
Old 08-01-2019, 11:09 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Originally Posted by JustBe
Thanks again.

I’m pretty consistent eating as I do. The beauty of that, is you can splurge if you want every now and then without upsetting your balance. As time has gone by, I’m noticing it’s easy to choose healthy anywhere I am, mainly because my body has adjusted long term eating this way, it’s not out of ‘have too’, ‘i should’ ‘need too’. It’s quite effortless to eat this way.

I notice a lot of my vegetarian friends don’t look more closely at the food balance on their plate. I’ve educated myself,about how to incorporate a wider range of foods to achieve that. Plus ensuring you keep that balance of food groups going more consistently

As for the fish. I would eat it regularly if I knew it was a clean and not a contaminated, source. Deep sea fish seems to be a favourite ‘safe’ source.




Well, I can't really know what your nutrition is from the two meals you talked about, but the food in there is good nutrient dense packed stuff.


People get strange ideas when they become vegetarian and vegan, and seem to forget about getting the same protein along with fat and carbs - which make up their calories, but really, for veges and vegans, eating a lot of beans, lentils, chickpeas, tofu, quinoa and grains like oats and other whole grains along with some nuts and seeds helps keep protein up. For athletes who want to be strong/stay strong, a protein supplement such as pea protein powder might be warranted (probably a good idea). Because whole food vege protein sources are also high carb, vegans would need a lower fat diet.


As you can see in this link, top vegan athletes basically follow how I outlined it above. https://www.mensjournal.com/food-dri...amateur-boxer/



I have eaten clean for almost 3 years straight now, and I eat very simple, eat the same things a lot, so I can keep track of calories and macronutrients. If I eat food with a lot of ingredients it makes it harder to keep track, so I stick to single ingredient whole foods and make simple meals out of that.


In my sport I have to lift the heaviest thing possible, so much of the time I'm trying to build muscle, which means gaining weight, but along with more muscle weight comes more fat weight, and I have to be careful not to pile on the fat. I have get a lot of protein and eat in a very slight calorie surplus (and get all the micronutrients from fruit and veg as well). After about 6 months of gaining weight I start to accumulate too much fat; then I have to cut calories to lose the excess. But if I lose weight too quickly much of that weigh loss will be muscle mass, so I have to be careful, eat tons of protein, and cut carbs and fat to a slight calorie deficit, and lose weight slowly, keeping the muscle. Lifting heavy things is all about everything.

Nutrition is so you can do the things you want to do, including things you can't do yet. And when you start doing things you have never done before, there is no turning back from there.
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  #24  
Old 08-01-2019, 03:35 PM
JustBe JustBe is offline
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Originally Posted by Gem
Well, I can't really know what your nutrition is from the two meals you talked about, but the food in there is good nutrient dense packed stuff.


People get strange ideas when they become vegetarian and vegan, and seem to forget about getting the same protein along with fat and carbs - which make up their calories, but really, for veges and vegans, eating a lot of beans, lentils, chickpeas, tofu, quinoa and grains like oats and other whole grains along with some nuts and seeds helps keep protein up. For athletes who want to be strong/stay strong, a protein supplement such as pea protein powder might be warranted (probably a good idea). Because whole food vege protein sources are also high carb, vegans would need a lower fat diet.


As you can see in this link, top vegan athletes basically follow how I outlined it above. https://www.mensjournal.com/food-dri...amateur-boxer/



I have eaten clean for almost 3 years straight now, and I eat very simple, eat the same things a lot, so I can keep track of calories and macronutrients. If I eat food with a lot of ingredients it makes it harder to keep track, so I stick to single ingredient whole foods and make simple meals out of that.


In my sport I have to lift the heaviest thing possible, so much of the time I'm trying to build muscle, which means gaining weight, but along with more muscle weight comes more fat weight, and I have to be careful not to pile on the fat. I have get a lot of protein and eat in a very slight calorie surplus (and get all the micronutrients from fruit and veg as well). After about 6 months of gaining weight I start to accumulate too much fat; then I have to cut calories to lose the excess. But if I lose weight too quickly much of that weigh loss will be muscle mass, so I have to be careful, eat tons of protein, and cut carbs and fat to a slight calorie deficit, and lose weight slowly, keeping the muscle. Lifting heavy things is all about everything.

Nutrition is so you can do the things you want to do, including things you can't do yet. And when you start doing things you have never done before, there is no turning back from there.

You are running a fairly strict balance, but I see why. Whatever we choose for our bodies you do have to design/adjust your own program that suits that choice.

Like you I keep it simple so most meals are within all those foods I mentioned I eat. I know what’s in my meal so that’s s good way to get the balance of nutrients right.As an example yesterday I made quinoa, two boiled eggs with salad for lunch. Added a little dressing with olive oil. I got a little extra protein with nuts and tahini. I seem to know how to feed that balance intuitively more so just by sourcing a wider range of foods. Colours, textures, cooling/warming etc etc all come into that balance..I’m not doing vegetarian for any other reason than it feels right for my body as of now. I’m a big believer in the changing processors of age/stage, what and how we use our bodies and eating that way. I have a vegan friend who counts out her almonds each day. She might eat 3. That’s how she finds her balance. I just grab a small handful and that feels right for me. She is very conscious of the environmental impact and won’t eat anything not running through her program. She is also weight conscious more closely. She gets very tired in the colder months. Doesn’t do the cold well at all. She blames the cold. She eats mostly raw and limits her food intake.I look more closely at my bodies needs in winter so I might do those soups, eat a little meat ( a good free range organic source) up my warming foods. I know we all have unique body types, but ultimately like all of our choices in life, our diets do tend to match our mindset. Am I open to my body to listen and change according to its needs, with an open minded approach? Or does my mind rule what and how I choose to eat?. Some extremists are not flexible, because their program is set up more fixed about itself and it’s body. They won’t break from it. I can break from my way, but my body soon lets me know when to get back on track. In some ways I find the extreme way, that can be more detrimental to understanding and listening within the whole range of foods available to them in their choice and belief.


I just listen to what kind of fuel my body is seeking. You get used to the ‘feeling’ of what’s missing in your body. And the more clear your mind/body is, it seems to get easier. In this way I become my own program. I just listen to my body and learn to tune in deeper to its need. Develop a more clear sense of the natural food relationship outside my body one with that craving/feeling/need. I think you have to condition your body with a bigger variety of natural food choices to develop this way. Develop a closer affinity and relationship to lots of natural foods.

If your body has been running a sugar program forever, it only knows sugar as it’s source at those times you need your fix. That same program can tell you you need three almonds. Or if it’s my program, it could well mean a smoothie with all those things I mentioned earlier. I don’t want to starve my body and I also don’t want to fuel it with processed foods. I love food. Like you have mentioned, I’m more interested in food combining to get that balance right. I guess balance is my driver. For you, it could mean wine, chicken and salad as yourbalance. . It’s all tied to our unique program and what our bodies are doing or not doing.

If your listening to your body as a complete machine, it tends to support balance more so. I make food my priority. If I’m nourished and energised I find I have the fuel to live more fully. I’m less sluggish and more actively engaged with life. I have the energy to want to live and explore life in ways my comfort zone might not.

I typed this at two am. After five hours sleep I was wide awake. Those reading my words about being energised by my diet, might think it’s all because of food. I wish lol. Goodnight.
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  #25  
Old 11-01-2019, 02:05 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Originally Posted by JustBe
You are running a fairly strict balance, but I see why. Whatever we choose for our bodies you do have to design/adjust your own program that suits that choice.


In my crowd it's normal to track calories the way I do. When I first started I used to have to force feed because I wasn't used to eating so much or so often, but after the body settled in to doing a lot of activity, I just got hungrier. Now I have adjusted to a lot of training and I can just follow my hunger cravings and eat intuitively - mostly.



Many people especially in physique sports like bodybuilding or fitness modeling go too far, become a bit too obsessed, and lose touch with their hunger intuitions, and further disturb their metabolism with fat burning drugs and weird things.


I do a performance sport, powerlifting, so I'm not worried about physique and I like to carry a bit of fat, so I don't get ripped abs, for example. I get muscly for a reason - to lift heavy things - and not to 'look good' (though it does look good anyway). I think working the body to 'look good' can lead to body image problems, it often does, so I always suggest working the body to meet performance goals of some kind. The body will adapt and become the shape it needs to be to do what you demand of it, and 'looking good' will be a positive consequence of higher performance.


But the body needs the right fuel, so physical performance is the same conversation as food.



Quote:
Like you I keep it simple so most meals are within all those foods I mentioned I eat. I know whatís in my meal so thatís s good way to get the balance of nutrients right.As an example yesterday I made quinoa, two boiled eggs with salad for lunch. Added a little dressing with olive oil. I got a little extra protein with nuts and tahini. I seem to know how to feed that balance intuitively more so just by sourcing a wider range of foods. Colours, textures, cooling/warming etc etc all come into that balance..Iím not doing vegetarian for any other reason than it feels right for my body as of now. Iím a big believer in the changing processors of age/stage, what and how we use our bodies and eating that way. I have a vegan friend who counts out her almonds each day. She might eat 3. Thatís how she finds her balance. I just grab a small handful and that feels right for me. She is very conscious of the environmental impact and wonít eat anything not running through her program. She is also weight conscious more closely. She gets very tired in the colder months. Doesnít do the cold well at all. She blames the cold. She eats mostly raw and limits her food intake.


She is taking it a bit too far. I mean, for example, eating is not only nutrition. It has social aspects as well, and besides having too many restrictions making good nutrition very difficult, it makes regular social sharing much harder. Then you start to lose touch with the natural hunger, develop metabolic disorders which can be chronic problems.


Your approach is well balanced, and you ride the bike, practice yoga, and are probably reasonably physically active, so your body will scream for what it needs to fuel that, and as you listen and remain in touch with the body's needs, just as you described them, you'll be healthy and live long.



Quote:
I look more closely at my bodies needs in winter so I might do those soups, eat a little meat ( a good free range organic source) up my warming foods. I know we all have unique body types, but ultimately like all of our choices in life, our diets do tend to match our mindset. Am I open to my body to listen and change according to its needs, with an open minded approach? Or does my mind rule what and how I choose to eat?. Some extremists are not flexible, because their program is set up more fixed about itself and itís body. They wonít break from it. I can break from my way, but my body soon lets me know when to get back on track. In some ways I find the extreme way, that can be more detrimental to understanding and listening within the whole range of foods available to them in their choice and belief.


From the athletic perspective, the mind is the same as the body, and having the psychological profile of an athlete will form what you want to eat and how you want to move. In my coaching philosophy, the mind/body connection plays a big part because thinking like an athlete IS being an athlete.



One has to practice skills, technique, form, such as they do in yoga, so the neurological pathways in the brain form with the movement of the body. The brain has to adapt with the body so 'healthy and strong' is just the kind of person you are.


Quote:
I just listen to what kind of fuel my body is seeking. You get used to the Ďfeelingí of whatís missing in your body. And the more clear your mind/body is, it seems to get easier. In this way I become my own program. I just listen to my body and learn to tune in deeper to its need. Develop a more clear sense of the natural food relationship outside my body one with that craving/feeling/need. I think you have to condition your body with a bigger variety of natural food choices to develop this way. Develop a closer affinity and relationship to lots of natural foods.




Tru dat.


Quote:
If your body has been running a sugar program forever, it only knows sugar as itís source at those times you need your fix. That same program can tell you you need three almonds. Or if itís my program, it could well mean a smoothie with all those things I mentioned earlier. I donít want to starve my body and I also donít want to fuel it with processed foods. I love food. Like you have mentioned, Iím more interested in food combining to get that balance right. I guess balance is my driver. For you, it could mean wine, chicken and salad as yourbalance. . Itís all tied to our unique program and what our bodies are doing or not doing.


Actually a very rarely drink alcohol, but meat, starchy carbs and colourful fruit and veg is like, yea, I eat everything, but not anything.


Quote:
If your listening to your body as a complete machine, it tends to support balance more so. I make food my priority. If Iím nourished and energised I find I have the fuel to live more fully. Iím less sluggish and more actively engaged with life. I have the energy to want to live and explore life in ways my comfort zone might not.


Well said.


Quote:
I typed this at two am. After five hours sleep I was wide awake. Those reading my words about being energised by my diet, might think itís all because of food. I wish lol. Goodnight.
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  #26  
Old 12-01-2019, 10:32 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Having the context of energy as a two way street allows us to imagine calories as a balance between energy going into the body and energy the body puts out. This is how food and activity become a singular subject, and why any physical goal incorporates what you eat and what you do.


The confounding factor is, how do external environmental and social conditions affect bodies as they adapt to survive in their environments?


Most people have grown up in the fantasy of food marketing, and when people are immersed in the phantasmagorical landscape of the psycho-social food environment, relationships with food become perverse as we are conditioned by environmental circumstances which warp us psychologically as our bodies follow the consumer mindset into physical obesity. It is an epidemic, but a sickness of social, psychological and physical dimensions which can only be addressed multidimensionally.



Even though it is absolutely true that body composition and physical ability comes down to what you eat and what you do, the underlying motives of human beings are emotional rather than rational, and that psychology is the outcome of environmental conditions people have survived in across inter-generational lifespans. The rate of obesity started to skyrocket in the early eighties, coinciding with neo-liberalism commenced by Reagan and Thatcher across the States and the Commonwealth, closely followed internationally under globalisation ideology. Yes, Obesity extends beyond the political arena to ideological guiding principles of 'personal choice' which engenders free enterprise as the primary social driver, tipping the balance of influence heavily toward market forces which pay for all the advertising - predominantly junk food and trinkets - along with labour demands under which people are compelled to sacrifice home cooking for fast, easy convenience foods. There are food deserts in this indulgently abundant landscape where the low-income residents have little access to fresh whole food and their environment is saturated with drive-through-window food supplies. It is little wonder the inhabitants of these communities are, ironically, both overweight and malnourished.


It is important they you grasp the propensity and enormity of the obesity equation, because rates of obesity are escalating as rates of fitness are deteriorating. Children born and raised in this situation are headed for ill ends. The whole momentum of this monolithic trend needs to be acted on across all individual, social, community, societal, political and ideological dimensions to slow it down, bring it to a halt, and turn the whole thing around.


You wonder why it is difficult to turn your life around because it seems like its all on you, that you simply have to choose, but really, you are not living and choosing removed and apart from 'all else'. In fact, you live at the interface where your choices effect your environment and your environment affects you. That is the space in which all choices are made. This means that your choice now to be healthy and strong will effect your loved ones, your community, society at large, your political and ideological climate, and how your environment is built up - as this is the scope of what affects you.


This means your choice is hard, but it is incredibly meaningful because its repercussions are effective beyond your wildest imagining, but by that same token, when making your choice, you need to understand how that same immensity affects you. With that understanding, you can make the right choice with the appropriate conviction, as you also understand its full profundity.
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  #27  
Old Today, 09:52 AM
JustBe JustBe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
In my crowd it's normal to track calories the way I do. When I first started I used to have to force feed because I wasn't used to eating so much or so often, but after the body settled in to doing a lot of activity, I just got hungrier. Now I have adjusted to a lot of training and I can just follow my hunger cravings and eat intuitively - mostly.



Many people especially in physique sports like bodybuilding or fitness modeling go too far, become a bit too obsessed, and lose touch with their hunger intuitions, and further disturb their metabolism with fat burning drugs and weird things.


I do a performance sport, powerlifting, so I'm not worried about physique and I like to carry a bit of fat, so I don't get ripped abs, for example. I get muscly for a reason - to lift heavy things - and not to 'look good' (though it does look good anyway). I think working the body to 'look good' can lead to body image problems, it often does, so I always suggest working the body to meet performance goals of some kind. The body will adapt and become the shape it needs to be to do what you demand of it, and 'looking good' will be a positive consequence of higher performance.


But the body needs the right fuel, so physical performance is the same conversation as food.






She is taking it a bit too far. I mean, for example, eating is not only nutrition. It has social aspects as well, and besides having too many restrictions making good nutrition very difficult, it makes regular social sharing much harder. Then you start to lose touch with the natural hunger, develop metabolic disorders which can be chronic problems.


Your approach is well balanced, and you ride the bike, practice yoga, and are probably reasonably physically active, so your body will scream for what it needs to fuel that, and as you listen and remain in touch with the body's needs, just as you described them, you'll be healthy and live long.






From the athletic perspective, the mind is the same as the body, and having the psychological profile of an athlete will form what you want to eat and how you want to move. In my coaching philosophy, the mind/body connection plays a big part because thinking like an athlete IS being an athlete.



One has to practice skills, technique, form, such as they do in yoga, so the neurological pathways in the brain form with the movement of the body. The brain has to adapt with the body so 'healthy and strong' is just the kind of person you are.







Tru dat.





Actually a very rarely drink alcohol, but meat, starchy carbs and colourful fruit and veg is like, yea, I eat everything, but not anything.





Well said.

Thanks for sharing. I think our mind body awareness is similar in how we see the body and the reasons we do what we do. I seek to be healthy and well nourished and maintain a strong body in those things I enjoy doing. So just by doing things I enjoy, eating what I enjoy, the results of those things support looking and feeling good, in that order.
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Old Today, 10:11 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Originally Posted by JustBe
Thanks for sharing. I think our mind body awareness is similar in how we see the body and the reasons we do what we do. I seek to be healthy and well nourished and maintain a strong body in those things I enjoy doing. So just by doing things I enjoy, eating what I enjoy, the results of those things support looking and feeling good, in that order.




Its all good, and this subject of getting in touch with actual hunger and being full is the most important aspect of having a healthy relationship with food, but the reason I don't usually promote it is a lot of people, most people, have social conditioning and cravings for unhealthy food like donuts, maccas, chips, icecream, grog, cola and so on, due to life long advertising and just living 'normally'.


If you follow the 'body acceptance movement' there are many harmful messages such as 'eat what you want' because they have distorted views on loving your body which is often seen as 'giving it what it wants' rather than 'taking good care of it', and it's not prudent to give obese people a message like, 'stop worrying and eat whatever you want'. These obese people are not in touch with their natural chemistry and sensations which tell them they are full and stop eating now, and they are nowhere near having a good sense of their body's specific nutritional needs. In short, they don't have a clear mind/body connection so they can't just eat intuitively. They are often entirely unconscious of what they eat, and have emotional compulsions which they have no control over, and they need prolonged practice at conscious eating and mind/body connection in motion to re-connect that unity of mind and body - and they have to overcome difficult old emotions in that process as well - so it is a very complicated bit of work requiring alterations to their environment both physical and social, and then their body will adapt to survive in that environment.
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Old Today, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by JustBe
Thanks for sharing. I think our mind body awareness is similar in how we see the body and the reasons we do what we do. I seek to be healthy and well nourished and maintain a strong body in those things I enjoy doing. So just by doing things I enjoy, eating what I enjoy, the results of those things support looking and feeling good, in that order.




Yes, I think a good order is, be fit enough to do all the activities you love to do, and you'll feel good and look good as a consequence.
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Old Today, 04:37 PM
JustBe JustBe is offline
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Originally Posted by Gem
Its all good, and this subject of getting in touch with actual hunger and being full is the most important aspect of having a healthy relationship with food, but the reason I don't usually promote it is a lot of people, most people, have social conditioning and cravings for unhealthy food like donuts, maccas, chips, icecream, grog, cola and so on, due to life long advertising and just living 'normally'.


If you follow the 'body acceptance movement' there are many harmful messages such as 'eat what you want' because they have distorted views on loving your body which is often seen as 'giving it what it wants' rather than 'taking good care of it', and it's not prudent to give obese people a message like, 'stop worrying and eat whatever you want'. These obese people are not in touch with their natural chemistry and sensations which tell them they are full and stop eating now, and they are nowhere near having a good sense of their body's specific nutritional needs. In short, they don't have a clear mind/body connection so they can't just eat intuitively. They are often entirely unconscious of what they eat, and have emotional compulsions which they have no control over, and they need prolonged practice at conscious eating and mind/body connection in motion to re-connect that unity of mind and body - and they have to overcome difficult old emotions in that process as well - so it is a very complicated bit of work requiring alterations to their environment both physical and social, and then their body will adapt to survive in that environment.

It definitely can be a very complicated process for many. I think even with new knowedge and awareness of what is better for your health, the challenges for a focused and more consistent balanced turnaround (lasting and integrated) can still challenge many. I have observed in myself that the deeper my own mind body healing goes through each shift, emotionally and spiritually, the more effortless the physical has been. The physical body awareness less invaded by barriers of a self conditioned or in resistance to itself. Even the whole sensory changes within myself through those processors have supported a willingness to try and enjoy new foods. More colour, more crunch, more flavours. One thing I noticed as someone who very rarely has sugar, my taste buds and body naturally seek fresh fruit and vegetables, nuts and healthy snacks to satisfy my hunger and points of what might be determined as craving points, for someone struggling to move beyond their unhealthy cravings. The field of body awareness is certainly an avenue of work that can support others more holistically, especially someone like yourself who is mind/body aware and more lead to understand the deeper conditioned nature of others.
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