Is This Reality Perfect?

[revolver]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Due to my recent forays in the Non-Duality Forum and elsewhere...discussing Neo Advaita among other things...everybody saying "you don't need to do anything because you are already that"...I sit and wonder...just how many people are totally complacent with the knowledge "okay, so I am that...fair enough...is that all this spirituality thing IS? no big deal...I am that, you are that, everything is that...cool beans...and now, I can say and do what I want, even get angry, criticise others, not care about anything because I am that...and all that I am doing and saying is just a part of the 'that' which 'I am"...and how many of them have actually felt it deep inside? actually experienced this Oneness with the universe first-hand?...felt the awesome bliss?...the peace? the outpouring and inpouring of love?...danced around in ecstatic rapture?...had their brains and hearts expanded?...experienced a greater clarity of mind?...had their whole consciousness blown and ripped apart by this realisation?...never the same again? etc etc and how many just say "I am that" as they would say "I am *insert name*?"

Yes it is that easy, why make all these excuses, when we realize this truth that we are already there, it turns out to be the biggest joke ever, looking back at all these clowns pretending their not there lol.

[revolver]

Originally Posted by Gem

It is all a big brain fart teehee.

Ha Ha, I like that.

[WabiSabi]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Due to my recent forays in the Non-Duality Forum and elsewhere...discussing Neo Advaita among other things...everybody saying "you don't need to do anything because you are already that"...I sit and wonder...just how many people are totally complacent with the knowledge "okay, so I am that...fair enough...is that all this spirituality thing IS? no big deal...I am that, you are that, everything is that...cool beans...and now, I can say and do what I want, even get angry, criticise others, not care about anything because I am that...and all that I am doing and saying is just a part of the 'that' which 'I am"...and how many of them have actually felt it deep inside? actually experienced this Oneness with the universe first-hand?...felt the awesome bliss?...the peace? the outpouring and inpouring of love?...danced around in ecstatic rapture?...had their brains and hearts expanded?...experienced a greater clarity of mind?...had their whole consciousness blown and ripped apart by this realisation?...never the same again? etc etc and how many just say "I am that" as they would say "I am *insert name*?"

Knowing you are All That Is and experiencing yourself as All That Is are two different things. But I would say that people who are fine with just the knowledge aren't being complacent in taking refuge in their knowledge, as they are doing just as they should, which is to say they are being who they are. Those who seek out the authentic experience of all that is are doing just the same, they are being true to themselves and doing what they want. The experience will come when it will, for all is as it should be.

You calling people who stop their progression at thinking complacent is a judgement; but All That Is does not judge. Yet in the same scope, your judgement of those people is also as it should be, as you are being true to your own personality.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by WabiSabi

Knowing you are All That Is and experiencing yourself as All That Is are two different things. But I would say that people who are fine with just the knowledge aren't being complacent in taking refuge in their knowledge, as they are doing just as they should, which is to say they are being who they are. Those who seek out the authentic experience of all that is are doing just the same, they are being true to themselves and doing what they want. The experience will come when it will, for all is as it should be.

You calling people who stop their progression at thinking complacent is a judgement; but All That Is does not judge. Yet in the same scope, your judgement of those people is also as it should be, as you are being true to your own personality.

I understand, WabiSabi and I did not mean for it to be judgmental, if it came across that way.

I guess I should have said, how many people just stop at the dry knowledge without taking it any further, thinking that's all there is to it?

However, you are correct in saying they are two different things. The former is a realisation acquired through the mind, which is limited in perception, but the latter is acquired through the heart, which is unlimited and unconstrained by the boundaries of thought...of just thinking "I am" because it permeates their whole being with such indescribable experience.

It's been a while since I allowed myself to dive into that ocean and maybe my projections are spiritual in nature, reminding myself that it's time for another heart surrender, instead of outlining the possibilities to others beyond all their mental gymnastics.

[WabiSabi]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I understand, WabiSabi and I did not mean for it to be judgmental, if it came across that way.

I guess I should have said, how many people just stop at the dry knowledge without taking it any further, thinking that's all there is to it?

However, you are correct in saying they are two different things. The former is a realisation acquired through the mind, which is limited in perception, but the latter is acquired through the heart, which is unlimited and unconstrained by the boundaries of thought...of just thinking "I am" because it permeates their whole being with such indescribable experience.

It's been a while since I allowed myself to dive into that ocean and maybe my projections are spiritual in nature, reminding myself that it's time for another heart surrender, instead of outlining the possibilities to others beyond all their mental gymnastics.

You didn't come across as such, I was just using your words as an example. I didn't mean to imply that you were making any sort of mistake either. What I was trying to get across was that people who stop their quest at knowledge, who don't seek to experience for themselves, no matter how many they are, are not making a mistake but are being true to themselves. If I then judge them as complacent because they refuse to go beyond mere knowledge, I am making the mistake of not realizing that they are doing just as they should. My judgement is misplaced and born out of ignorance. And yet, my judgement is not actually a mistake, because in judging them I am then being true to my personality that is making the judgement. Do you see what I mean?

If I, as an individual, came to the intellectual conclusion that I am one with everything but decided to leave it there and not try and experience such a reality for myself, I am not making a mistake. All that means is that my personality/ego wasn't going to go down that path. On the flip side, if I came to such an intellectual conclusion, and such a conclusion spurred me on to experience that conclusion personally, then that simply means that my personality/ego was of the type to do such a thing.

If a person wears an emotional mask in public, so that they don't appear to others as they actually feel internally, many would call them inauthentic. But I think that's silly. After all, what is making the decision to wear that mask? Their ego is. And so their ego is being authentic in that it is making an authentic decision to don that mask. The donning of that mask is part of that person's authentic ego, as their ego is of the type that would wear a mask in public for whatever reason. The whole notion that anyone can be anything other than authentic is a farce. But at the SAME time, if someone judges such a person as inauthentic for wearing a mask, that person's judgement is not a mistake, as such a judgement is an authentic decision of their own ego.

The murderer did nothing wrong, but neither did the men who imprisoned him. All is as it should be.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by WabiSabi

You didn't come across as such, I was just using your words as an example. I didn't mean to imply that you were making any sort of mistake either. What I was trying to get across was that people who stop their quest at knowledge, who don't seek to experience for themselves, no matter how many they are, are not making a mistake but are being true to themselves. If I then judge them as complacent because they refuse to go beyond mere knowledge, I am making the mistake of not realizing that they are doing just as they should. My judgement is misplaced and born out of ignorance. And yet, my judgement is not actually a mistake, because in judging them I am then being true to my personality that is making the judgement. Do you see what I mean?

If I, as an individual, came to the intellectual conclusion that I am one with everything but decided to leave it there and not try and experience such a reality for myself, I am not making a mistake. All that means is that my personality/ego wasn't going to go down that path. On the flip side, if I came to such an intellectual conclusion, and such a conclusion spurred me on to experience that conclusion personally, then that simply means that my personality/ego was of the type to do such a thing.

If a person wears an emotional mask in public, so that they don't appear to others as they actually feel internally, many would call them inauthentic. But I think that's silly. After all, what is making the decision to wear that mask? Their ego is. And so their ego is being authentic in that it is making an authentic decision to don that mask. The donning of that mask is part of that person's authentic ego, as their ego is of the type that would wear a mask in public for whatever reason. The whole notion that anyone can be anything other than authentic is a farce. But at the SAME time, if someone judges such a person as inauthentic for wearing a mask, that person's judgement is not a mistake, as such a judgement is an authentic decision of their own ego.

The murderer did nothing wrong, but neither did the men who imprisoned him. All is as it should be.

It is difficult for me to understand what you mean, but I'm trying to.

It all sounds to me, like just another way of saying "you be who you are and just let others be who they are" and then, I feel like I could go into meditation, realise the oneness, experience endless bliss until I just totally disappear up my own backside by doing so. lol

[Shivani Devi]

In other words, lemme see if I got this...

If they stop their search at the 'knowledge stage' then it is their karma in this lifetime to do just that and no amount of me saying "hey mate, get outta your head and into your heart" is gonna make any difference because it may take a few more births until they get there (if they ever do).

If it is their karma to obtain Nirvana in this existence, it will happen regardless of who/what facilitates it and I guess I'm just going through the whole throes of SF existentialism when I could just respond to every post saying "that's nice dear...whatever you say".

[revolver]

It doesn't matter if you get it or not, because you are already it, no afterlife is needed, because you will still be in the same boat, if you get it or not doesn't mean ****, you are it, lets stop the excuses.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by revolver

It doesn't matter if you get it or not, because you are already it, no afterlife is needed, because you will still be in the same boat, if you get it or not doesn't mean ****, you are it, lets stop the excuses.

That's nice dear...whatever you say.

[ocean breeze]

Originally Posted by Gem

It is all a big brain fart teehee.

Maybe.

Oh snap. All these years spent thinking i exist, thinking i know it all. Who am i again?