Self-righteous justification

[Shivani Devi]

It seems that this current age of entitlement, as opposed to Enlightenment, has failed to curb the enquiry by others to ascertain personal motivation.

I was raised by overcontrolling parents, who always questioned everything I ever did...not because they wanted to know, but so they could judge, criticise and shoot holes in the whole reasoning behind my actions, if they simply disagreed...and yet, if I said nothing, I always had "something to hide" which made me "dishonest" and a "shady character"....So, if I told them why I did what I did or not, I could not win either way.

When this age of entitlement came around, it was like a huge breath of fresh air for me. I could finally say that the reason why I had all my little eccentric quirks is because I am entitled to have them...and the Law protects my freedom of religious expression as a basic human right. I also have the right to refuse to answer or give any justification....I love this age...yet, those who still exist in a dimension pre 2000 are still asking me WHY I need to do certain rituals....WHY I behave a certain way ( if it is not socially acceptable or normal) and all I can say is " because it makes me happy...You wouldn't want to stand in the way of that now, would you?"

If people were asking out of general interest, I would take time to explain myself...but more often than not, the "why" is a baiting...It is a loaded enquiry which means that no matter what justification you give, I am going to disagree with you, because I disapprove of what you are doing and there is absolutely no rhyme or reason why you should be doing it...So, me asking "why" is moot, but I am asking it anyway.

I have tried many things "I am sorry, but my reasons are too personal to discuss with you"..."why do you need to know my reasons?" at that point, the onus shifts to personal "responsibility" and "accountability" and even "liability" in that EVERYONE needs to know the reasons why you do what you do because only the insane perform actions without knowing why and "because it makes me happy" or "because I want to" aren't good enough.

It is at that point I either admit I am insane and they are crazier than I am by continuing to try and have a rational discussion with me, or else I say that I have my own reasons that I will take to my grave...and of course then I have "something to hide" again....So what have I got to hide? simple...My soul.

[FallingLeaves]

yeah. what she said. After years of that I was left wondering though, is this what I get for expecting people to support who I am? Maybe if I weren't so keen on saying they should treat me a certain way they wouldn't be so keen on being mean instead?

I dunno...

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

yeah. what she said. After years of that I was left wondering though, is this what I get for expecting people to support who I am? Maybe if I weren't so keen on saying they should treat me a certain way they wouldn't be so keen on being mean instead?

I dunno...

Trying to force others do what we want them do, and expecting them do so, is a waste.

My credo: always do what you believe to be right (by your own criteria), and don't worry about others' saying. In life, on average, one is rewarded proportional with what they deserve. Focusing on the reward cuts into your performance, and consequently you deserve less, and are rewarded less.

[Shivani Devi]

That could be a possibility, Falling.... however, I am also the very first to admit that others are just as "entitled" to disapprove and disagree with what I do, as I am to "be myself".

In the general populace, this is easy enough to deal with, because each party can get closure very easily and move on...but when we are dealing with friends, family, work associates etc, the scenario becomes almost impossible to deal with because there is absolutely no compromise...neither party is willing to give an inch on their stance...being that I cannot become "less of myself" just to stroke another's ego...and neither can they.

I guess it all boils down to accepting another for who they are, even if they vehemently disagree with it...and the majority of people find that doing this is impossible.

They say that we choose our family before birth....we sign a contract that these are the people we wish to have as our kindred....and I fully disagree with that. There is NO way I would have ever agreed to being the daughter of a serial pedo...I would have preferred roasting for an eternity in the fiery abyss....but I digress.

It has come to my attention just now that my parents were the dishonest, shady characters they were telling me not to be.....So all they were doing was projecting their own guilt, fears, misdeeds etc in a rather Orwellian style....full of Communist propaganda left over from WW2...is it any wonder I am a screwed up mess?

It is the same human logic that was responsible for the Salem witch trials....The Spanish Inquisition....If you die, you are innocent of the charges, but if you live, you are guilty and need to be put to death.

Sometimes, I even envy those who were born deaf and mute...because if there were an "opt out" button, I would have pressed it ages ago...

So, I really don't know what I hoped to achieve by making this thread...It isn't really a rant, nor is it venting...nor does it really have a point or purpose, so IF anybody were to ask "why" I could give the same answer as Sir Edmund Hillary did for climbing Mt Everest..."because it is there"...It is like an itch that arises in me from time to time that needs scratching... nothing more or less.

[Empowers]

I was thinking 2 things while reading your musings... first that you expecting them to be a certain way is no different than they expecting you to be a certain way. The only way to win that battle is to be not affected by the way they are. Think about what that would be like, them asking and you answering without requiring them to believe, accept, approve, understand, and not requiring yourself to justify anything. I find that I become interested in people's disapproval of me, it's a fascinating aspect of humanity.

The other thing that was brewing in me is the way I would lay it on the table, "I don't feel safe to discuss this with you because I am afraid I will be let down if I experience disapproval from you. I would prefer not to feel that."

I'm afraid many people do not like me because I am quite blunt. Although I try to hold my comments to what I would feel and what I would be afraid of. Not directly accusing them but being open and truthful about my own state. It usually disarms judgement and provides a neutral ground for a discussion, if one is then desired in earnest.

That's all, those were the thoughts I had while reading your whimsical thread :-)

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Empowers

I was thinking 2 things while reading your musings... first that you expecting them to be a certain way is no different than they expecting you to be a certain way. The only way to win that battle is to be not affected by the way they are. Think about what that would be like, them asking and you answering without requiring them to believe, accept, approve, understand, and not requiring yourself to justify anything. I find that I become interested in people's disapproval of me, it's a fascinating aspect of humanity.

The other thing that was brewing in me is the way I would lay it on the table, "I don't feel safe to discuss this with you because I am afraid I will be let down if I experience disapproval from you. I would prefer not to feel that."

I'm afraid many people do not like me because I am quite blunt. Although I try to hold my comments to what I would feel and what I would be afraid of. Not directly accusing them but being open and truthful about my own state. It usually disarms judgement and provides a neutral ground for a discussion, if one is then desired in earnest.

That's all, those were the thoughts I had while reading your whimsical thread :-)

Thank you so much for providing an alternative way to deal with these judgmental people. It is kindly appreciated.

There is an internet meme that can be highly applicable here... "Haters gonna hate" and there are a lot of "haters" out there.... including all those you would expect to have your 'best interests' at heart...but yes, the trick is in not expecting those who should care for you during your formative years to actually care one iota...or have a warped sense of what "caring" actually means....and this is also something those who come from a dysfunctional family background can also attest.

I also should expand on the requirement for others seeking justification, which I touched on previously, to ascertain intention....because, as it currently stands, whenever another asks me "why" I immediately take that as being an insult, due to my interrogative upbringing, so I immediately go on the defensive warpath... believing I have something to "prove" to another when my actions fail to justify themselves.

I also have no problems with others disagreeing with me, as long as they leave it there...but the same arguments arise each and every time I indulge in doing something I enjoy and all I can say is "your objection is noted yet again, so can we please drop this now?" to which, the inevitable reply becomes "nope" and so the only option left is to totally ignore them... especially when they say "the reason why I disagree is because what you are doing seems totally ridiculous to me" but they won't elaborate on that.

I would like to give an example of this...and it is only used for illustration... Whenever I watch Unsolved Mysteries on the TV...my brother and mother will always pop their head in my room and go "why are you watching that cr*p?...I thought you were more intelligent than that to believe all that woo woo" and then they want to show me YouTube videos made by James Randi...Richard Dawkins et al...and yes, I have already seen all those too...It is SO difficult to be the only Theist when all of one's friends and family are all staunch atheists and subscribe to "skeptics anonymous" and "PSYCOP".

They are the type who would prefer theists, spiritualists, gays etc to remain hidden in the closet and take their views and beliefs 'underground' meanwhile the propagation of their beliefs should be the only ones which ever get to see the light of day.

This was the whole impetus surrounding the creation of this thread anyway.

[Empowers]

It is hard, isn't it? My mother once called me "of the devil". Family is definitely the easiest to get under our skin. My experience was that being strong in who I was took time and practice. I wish you peace, strength and compassion to navigate this time.

[Miss Hepburn]

Another alternative...'Nonayabusiness'....it's the Mafia's approach.

You may think I'm kidding...it gives you power, cuz it isn't their business.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

It seems that this current age of entitlement, as opposed to Enlightenment, has failed to curb the enquiry by others to ascertain personal motivation.

I was raised by overcontrolling parents, who always questioned everything I ever did...not because they wanted to know, but so they could judge, criticise and shoot holes in the whole reasoning behind my actions, if they simply disagreed...and yet, if I said nothing, I always had "something to hide" which made me "dishonest" and a "shady character"....So, if I told them why I did what I did or not, I could not win either way.

When this age of entitlement came around, it was like a huge breath of fresh air for me. I could finally say that the reason why I had all my little eccentric quirks is because I am entitled to have them...and the Law protects my freedom of religious expression as a basic human right. I also have the right to refuse to answer or give any justification....I love this age...yet, those who still exist in a dimension pre 2000 are still asking me WHY I need to do certain rituals....WHY I behave a certain way ( if it is not socially acceptable or normal) and all I can say is " because it makes me happy...You wouldn't want to stand in the way of that now, would you?"

If people were asking out of general interest, I would take time to explain myself...but more often than not, the "why" is a baiting...It is a loaded enquiry which means that no matter what justification you give, I am going to disagree with you, because I disapprove of what you are doing and there is absolutely no rhyme or reason why you should be doing it...So, me asking "why" is moot, but I am asking it anyway.

I have tried many things "I am sorry, but my reasons are too personal to discuss with you"..."why do you need to know my reasons?" at that point, the onus shifts to personal "responsibility" and "accountability" and even "liability" in that EVERYONE needs to know the reasons why you do what you do because only the insane perform actions without knowing why and "because it makes me happy" or "because I want to" aren't good enough.

It is at that point I either admit I am insane and they are crazier than I am by continuing to try and have a rational discussion with me, or else I say that I have my own reasons that I will take to my grave...and of course then I have "something to hide" again....So what have I got to hide? simple...My soul.

The world is full of why's and full of answers.

In the end your early upbringing still plays out in some way. But at least your aware of yourself.

Sometimes the binding external forces that come at us, can create our own curious way of responding in reply, especially if you deem them as not very curious in why they want to know.

I wonder. Wonder and curiosity, are delightful little things to use when you need them.