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  #11  
Old 04-11-2019, 10:39 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
Thank you!



I can't wrap my mind around it intellectually. Can anyone? But if I close my eyes and quietly say "I" to myself only one thing comes to mind - Awareness. When interacting with others I can sense in a sort of empathetic way the same awareness within them and it's really quite stirring. I'll use a term I think I saw in one of your posts in another thread. It's "heart knowledge" and visceral at that. As far as devotion to a personal God, wouldn't that be Bhakti Yoga, or am I misunderstanding? Also couldn't it take the form as devotion to God through devotion to all of creation as sacred?



In some way and through some shape or form am "I" not always observing the subjective? Also since Advaita Vedanta emphasizes a strong path of knowledge and intellectual inquiry I feel your questioning is a necessary aspect of seeking. In retrospect I think that is what I was doing over the past decade while obsessively digging into consciousness, and especially once I found the SAND talks on YouTube. Finding Advaita Vedanta was the icing on the cake, so to speak.



I think that's what I like about it? Truth be told the small "I" that is me is too much of a free spirit to acquiesce in the strictest sense. See the Bruce Lee quote in my sig. At times it's been a liability but also a great strength. Another duality. LOL!



Absolutely! Long before I found Advaita Vedanta and even before I become obsessed with consciousness I had the same basic idea, though very loosely formulated in my mind. They way I pictured it was The Source had little tendrils of itself infusing all of reality as we know it so everything was in fact Divine. It just 'felt' right. Again, 'heart knowledge'.



The thing for me about Vivekananda and on a personal level is he pretty much single-handedly spread the philosophy to the U.S., and with such passion and devotion it literally killed him.



You know what I really like about this forum? The diverse and insightful replies and not only to my posts, and especially those that might not agree with my perspective. Therein lies unexplored possibilities and opportunities.

Yes, the form we identity as being Swami Vivekananda was indeed a very bright star which burned out all too briefly. Swami Yogananda's life was also cut relatively short doing a similar thing and the message seems to be: "okay, I have done what I was born to do...I can go back home now".

You are indeed correct that the path I follow is called "Bhakti Yoga" (with a good helping of Raja Yoga thrown in for good measure). To have a personal relationship with the Divine and to surrender that "small I" to a concept which is perceived to be bigger than it is called Apara Bhakti or the "lesser significance" of transcendence through Divine Love. To see the Divine in all and to identify with the indivisible nature of the Absolute through Divine Love is called Para Bhakti , or the "greater significance" of transcendence through Divine Love... there's that damn Duality once again.

The challenge is to reconcile Advaita Vedanta, which is essentially Jnana Yoga (the path of the questioning intellect) with Bhakti Yoga (the path of the accepting heart) because what happens when we attain an experience which the rational mind or intellect cannot understand? It may seem totally crazy or absurd to knowledge or reason...so how can that be Jnana/Gyan or Gnosis anymore? and if one is stuck in the head, forever asking questions which have no answers, wherefore is any opportunity for the heart to get involved in it?

In a way, I still don't understand the difference between the "small I" and the "big I" (there is just "I" and "not I") and my thinking mind (which would probably equate with the "small I") is unable to make that distinction as it is trying to understand things beyond its capacity to do so...and it is also this "small I" which interacts with the Universe..so how would IT know any different to what it already does?

Whenever I ask the question "who am I?" the ONLY response I ever get to that is "who wants to know?" ...and I am left wondering if all the saints and Sages of yore ever had that specific issue when it came to Self-Inquiry? LOL
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  #12  
Old 04-11-2019, 11:19 AM
JustASimpleGuy JustASimpleGuy is offline
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Agree, agree, agree, agree! LOL!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
In a way, I still don't understand the difference between the "small I" and the "big I" (there is just "I" and "not I") and my thinking mind (which would probably equate with the "small I") is unable to make that distinction as it is trying to understand things beyond its capacity to do so...and it is also this "small I" which interacts with the Universe..so how would IT know any different to what it already does?

Whenever I ask the question "who am I?" the ONLY response I ever get to that is "who wants to know?" ...and I am left wondering if all the saints and Sages of yore ever had that specific issue when it came to Self-Inquiry? LOL

For me it's best explained by analogy because that's the only way I can even begin to wrap my mind around it. For my entire life I was stumbling around a pitch black room, searching for a light switch I believed existed. When I finally found it (The Big One) and the lights went on belief dissolved, replaced with the knowing of direct experience. The experience of separation between Awareness and mind seems to be the defining aspect of life now.

Aside from that I can't really add anything from an intellectual perspective except for the long and winding road that led me there. From the small "I" perspective of mind that has to be enough because my impression is that's all it will ever be able to wrap itself around.

It's still intensely curious and will continue drilling down from both a spiritual and scientific perspective, but it doubts the answer to the Big Question of how it all works and fits together will ever become clear from an intellectual perspective.

So yeah, I can definitely relate to your perspective and it has to be an inherent aspect of the gross level of reality we experience, and therein I suspect the difficulty arises.

EDIT: An interesting and quite humorous aspect of it all is how I refer to 'I' and 'me' now. In my mind it's all crystal clear but it's kind of clunky making that distinction in everyday interactions and I don't really see myself doing it in casual conversation like Sadghuru does when referring to his body-mind as 'this one'. LOL!
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"Of a certainty the man who can see all creatures in himself, himself in all creatures, knows no sorrow." ~ Upanishads

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  #13  
Old 04-11-2019, 12:00 PM
JustASimpleGuy JustASimpleGuy is offline
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What is your take on this explanation and does it make sense to you?

https://youtu.be/n6OxOrTubb0?list=PL...ywQvhBzzdrQ A

This is off topic but amusing and relates to how Swami waggles his head from side to side when the question is posed. I work in IT and over the course of my career have had many Indian peers. At first I was confused by their head bobble gesture, thinking they were disagreeing with me when in fact it was an expression of understanding or agreement. LOL!
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"Research your own experience; absorb what is useful, reject what is useless and add what is essentially your own." ~ Bruce Lee

"Of a certainty the man who can see all creatures in himself, himself in all creatures, knows no sorrow." ~ Upanishads

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  #14  
Old 04-11-2019, 03:53 PM
JustASimpleGuy JustASimpleGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Although I enjoy watching and listening to Swami Sarvapriyananda, I much prefer the offerings of Swami Tadatmananda, because his elocution of the English language is simply superb and he is very relaxing to listen to.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uSC_OoIl7hQ

OMG, I was just like that farmer! I was digging for something all over the place, and was even digging one hole in the right place but without understanding what I was digging for and in the form of meditation in a secular context.

When I came across SAND I began to gain a sense of direction and then Sadhguru and Swami Sarvapriyananda filled in the last piece of the map. The piece with 'X' marks the spot, if you will!

EDIT: I also have to give credit to Eckhart Tolle. He fits somewhere between SAND and the guru & swami.
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"Research your own experience; absorb what is useful, reject what is useless and add what is essentially your own." ~ Bruce Lee

"Of a certainty the man who can see all creatures in himself, himself in all creatures, knows no sorrow." ~ Upanishads

https://tinyurl.com/y2mxr4s2 My YouTube Channel
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  #15  
Old 04-11-2019, 11:26 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
Agree, agree, agree, agree! LOL!



For me it's best explained by analogy because that's the only way I can even begin to wrap my mind around it. For my entire life I was stumbling around a pitch black room, searching for a light switch I believed existed. When I finally found it (The Big One) and the lights went on belief dissolved, replaced with the knowing of direct experience. The experience of separation between Awareness and mind seems to be the defining aspect of life now.

Aside from that I can't really add anything from an intellectual perspective except for the long and winding road that led me there. From the small "I" perspective of mind that has to be enough because my impression is that's all it will ever be able to wrap itself around.

It's still intensely curious and will continue drilling down from both a spiritual and scientific perspective, but it doubts the answer to the Big Question of how it all works and fits together will ever become clear from an intellectual perspective.

So yeah, I can definitely relate to your perspective and it has to be an inherent aspect of the gross level of reality we experience, and therein I suspect the difficulty arises.

EDIT: An interesting and quite humorous aspect of it all is how I refer to 'I' and 'me' now. In my mind it's all crystal clear but it's kind of clunky making that distinction in everyday interactions and I don't really see myself doing it in casual conversation like Sadghuru does when referring to his body-mind as 'this one'. LOL!
Yes, it is quite strange when self-referencing after samadhi.

Whenever "I" say "I" it is always "who is the "I" that is saying "I"? and whenever the one who says "I" also says "my mind" or "my ego", it is always "what is it that thinks it 'owns' the mind or the ego?

No matter which way I slice that cake there, the thing that "I" associate with any personal pronoun, still ends up as being "my" ego...just a different aspect of it which adopts an objective role/viewpoint rather than a subjective one.

It is an exercise in "mental dissociation" which whatever form this "I" takes, is really proficient at doing and yet, everything is still neatly confined within the boundary of its own existence AS Self like a guilded cage and the only time it escapes is when any notion of an "I" gets lost in translation somehow in a full-blown devotional, ecstatic trance...and this is WHY any notion of an "I" makes the "I-dentification" (which may/not have anything to do with my canine incisors) with being a Bhakti Yogi.

You speak of Sadhguru...he really does nothing much for me....just hasn't got the "vibe" which moves me at any more than an intellectual level.

One day, I was going through his videos...just yawning and going "BORING...NEXT" when I came across the soundtrack for this year's Mahashivratri festival:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o4T4ayW8leI

Within seconds, I was up off the chair and spinning around like a dervish...
THAT "hit the spot".

It also happens whenever I listen to Kailash Kher:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn3fQz9kZzc

It is a good thing that I understand Sanskrit and Hindi...

Yes, that Indian "head bobble" thing is quite unique...it is usually accompanied by folded hands in the "Anjali Mudra" and the words "aachaa...aachaa" which sort of means "good! I see! Please go on!"

Another interesting gesture is when it looks like they are shooing you away with their hands, but it actually means "come closer".

In the Indian language, every single opposite word, rhymes! Which makes writing poetry in Hindi a breeze...but does nothing to foster Non-Duality..it just reinforces it! LOL

So, if they wave their hand and say "aao" it means "come" and if they wave their hand and say "jao" it means "get lost"...one would not want to be hard of hearing in India, would one?

Usually the prefix of the letter "a" or the prefix of "na/nir" is just added to the word to denote an opposite, kind of like how in English, we use "un" or "ill/irr"
It really is quite remarkable.
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  #16  
Old 04-11-2019, 11:46 PM
JustASimpleGuy JustASimpleGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
You speak of Sadhguru...he really does nothing much for me....just hasn't got the "vibe" which moves me at any more than an intellectual level.

Yup, I understand what you're saying. At first I found him intriguing but after a while he did get boring because it's the same spiel over and over again. I haven't clicked on one of his videos in a couple of weeks because I know exactly what he's going to say. Been there, done that...

What initially did strike me though is his emphasis on opening up a little space between awareness and mind and shifting one's persepctive from mind to awareness. I probably even heard it from Eckhart Tolle many times but for some reason it just never clicked. Maybe I just wasn't ready?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
One day, I was going through his videos...just yawning and going "BORING...NEXT" when I came across the soundtrack for this year's Mahashivratri festival:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o4T4ayW8leI

Within seconds, I was up off the chair and spinning around like a dervish...
THAT "hit the spot".

It also happens whenever I listen to Kailash Kher:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn3fQz9kZzc

A Whirling Dervish? LOL! But I know exactly what you mean. Music has a way of connecting to that deep inner space. For me it's classic rock. Not all of it, but some songs in particular get me in a funk groove and I'm moving around the house like James Brown! My dog gives me a look like I've lost it. Hahah!

https://youtu.be/xbq0OuJtErs

Or

https://youtu.be/qdbrIrFxas0
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"Research your own experience; absorb what is useful, reject what is useless and add what is essentially your own." ~ Bruce Lee

"Of a certainty the man who can see all creatures in himself, himself in all creatures, knows no sorrow." ~ Upanishads

https://tinyurl.com/y2mxr4s2 My YouTube Channel
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  #17  
Old 05-11-2019, 12:14 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
Yup, I understand what you're saying. At first I found him intriguing but after a while he did get boring because it's the same spiel over and over again. I haven't clicked on one of his videos in a couple of weeks because I know exactly what he's going to say. Been there, done that...

What initially did strike me though is his emphasis on opening up a little space between awareness and mind and shifting one's persepctive from mind to awareness. I probably even heard it from Eckhart Tolle many times but for some reason it just never clicked. Maybe I just wasn't ready?



A Whirling Dervish? LOL! But I know exactly what you mean. Music has a way of connecting to that deep inner space. For me it's classic rock. Not all of it, but some songs in particular get me in a funk groove and I'm moving around the house like James Brown! My dog gives me a look like I've lost it. Hahah!

https://youtu.be/xbq0OuJtErs

Or

https://youtu.be/qdbrIrFxas0
Those are some great tunes and while it isn't my thing, each of us has musical tastes which move them to the Spiritual core on a deeply personal level.

Yes, Damien the keeshond must wonder what it is that you are doing, but he will sit and meditate with you, so it's all good.
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  #18  
Old 07-11-2019, 07:56 PM
JustASimpleGuy JustASimpleGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir
You can "sit down and chat" with Vivekananda.
Just read his, "The Yogas".

Also suggest taking a look at "The Gospel of Ramakrishna" (his guru), who told Vivekananda: "He who is Rama and he who is Krishna, in one form is Ramakrishna".

Vivekananda once said about him that, "from a grain of sand Ramakrishna could create a thousands of Vivekanandas"

~ J


I'm reading the biography section of "Vivekananda: The Yogas and Other Works" and at the part where his relationship with Ramakrishna begins to deepen. It's a very good and easy read so far.
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"Research your own experience; absorb what is useful, reject what is useless and add what is essentially your own." ~ Bruce Lee

"Of a certainty the man who can see all creatures in himself, himself in all creatures, knows no sorrow." ~ Upanishads

https://tinyurl.com/y2mxr4s2 My YouTube Channel
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