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09-11-2019, 01:01 PM
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Does Consciousness Affect Matter?
"Dean Radin speaks at the Science of Consciousness Conference in Tucson 2016. Dean Radin, PhD, is chief scientist at the Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS)."
https://youtu.be/nRSBaq3vAeY?list=PL...ywQvhBzzdrQ A
The gentleman moderating the Q&A is Stuart Hameroff, an anesthesiologist and professor at the University of Arizona who, along with Sir Roger Penrose formulated the Orch OR hypothesis of consciousness.
The questioner at 37:45 is world-renowned philosopher of mind David Chalmers who coined the phrase "The Hard Problem" of consciousness. |
09-11-2019, 01:19 PM
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southwest, USA
Posts: 25,096
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Watch Gregg Braden youtubes. There are so many - here's one that has a few...
his research is impeccable.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...danWhxOssYS4Pi
But, I must add...there is no matter.  You think the chair your sitting on is a chair?
Nope.
__________________
.*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)
Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru.
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09-11-2019, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
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I'll add him to my viewing list along with TCS and SAND talks.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
But, I must add...there is no matter. You think the chair your sitting on is a chair?
Nope. |
Depends on point of view. 
From the body-mind perspective it's certainly a chair and its atoms are 99.9999999% empty and the remainder is eigenvalues in equations. From a perspective of awareness it's the chair Brahman. LOL! |
09-11-2019, 05:32 PM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,087
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
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Hahaha...
So...acc'd to quantum physics....YES consciousness affects matter and in fact is necessary for energy to "coalesce" from the realm of probability (intent) into matter (i.e., the chair) at any one point in space and time!!!
And yes...everything is mostly empty space AND gets re-created in each new moment, one from the next.
Seems the more I learn about it, the more respect I have for the foundational insights of the mystics 
The only real question is...if none of us are physically present and no animals are around...then whose consciousness (or what consciousness) is present to observe and "coalesce" the tree so it can fall in the woods? 
Are the trees and surrounds self-aware, such that they can fulfil the observer role of collapsing the field of potential into a material outcome? And/or is there an omnipresent or foundational consciousness which coalesces all from moment to moment, as the mystics would say is reflected in the foundations of the material universe?
My experience to date is, no matter what we uncover via science and observation -- which is valuable in itself -- ultimately the mystics will always be proven right, just as they have been thus far
Peace & blessings 
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.
Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.
For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way
and become themselves despite all opposition.
-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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09-11-2019, 06:56 PM
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Greg Bradden is great.
So is that Saghuru guy.
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09-11-2019, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
The only real question is...if none of us are physically present and no animals are around...then whose consciousness (or what consciousness) is present to observe and "coalesce" the tree so it can fall in the woods? |
It can't be intellectualized and that's why there are multiple interpretations of the collapse of the wave function, and even then they are only interpretations without a shred of real proof.
That's what Dean Radin was probing, the Copenhagen Interpretation. Many Worlds would be a tad more difficult to conduct laboratory experiments on. LOL!
As for real, sure it's real from the perspective of body-mind and as such it better be treated as real. It's just not the underlying reality. Kind of like physicists ponder the Unified Field and Theory of Everything but all they can do is come up with untestable hypothesis like String Theory or M Theory.
If either are correct then wave/particle duality is simply a manifestation of super strings, so the strings are real, not the wave/particle, but from our perspective they are sure enough real.
In short I don't know what the answer is and until I do know I just don't.
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09-11-2019, 08:06 PM
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southwest, USA
Posts: 25,096
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
The only real question is...if none of us are physically present and no animals are around...then whose consciousness (or what consciousness) is present to observe and "coalesce" the tree so it can fall in the woods?
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You're a woman...OK...if a tree falls in the woods and there's no man to hear it...is he still wrong?
__________________
.*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)
Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru.
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09-11-2019, 08:32 PM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,089
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Matter exists as Newton laws exist.
Consciousness is beyond Einstein's relativity.
Which can affect which?
The wave-particle duality is a subset of an all-encompassing duality, the thought-matter duality, that is a characteristic of all the levels of consciousness
__________________
Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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10-11-2019, 07:06 PM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,087
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
You're a woman...OK...if a tree falls in the woods and there's no man to hear it...is he still wrong? |
Miss H, OMG...I have my idiot hat on today...so what do you mean?
Sorry
Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.
Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.
For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way
and become themselves despite all opposition.
-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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10-11-2019, 07:09 PM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,087
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by inavalan
Matter exists as Newton laws exist.
Consciousness is beyond Einstein's relativity.
Which can affect which?
The wave-particle duality is a subset of an all-encompassing duality, the thought-matter duality, that is a characteristic of all the levels of consciousness
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Agreed...my statement was really just rhetorical but still has many layers for discussion. Everything has consciousness OR is impacted by consciousness, which in the case of the observer phenomenon, may amount to the same thing.
And very likely it may be that lower (quantum) levels of consciousness (or, arenas in which consciousness may have impact) may be overriden (so to speak) by higher levels of consciousness...such as ours, as sentient self-aware beings...such as sentient self-aware collectives...such as transcendental beings...and such as Oneness, or What Is, which remains largely unfathomable to us outside the heart centre connection.
Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.
Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.
For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way
and become themselves despite all opposition.
-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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