No God

[running]

Originally Posted by JustBe

With attention to what is within ones body moving through the purification process, presence with it all as a process moves you through it all. So without naming emotions, or sensations and what is as it is, it’s leading one back to a centred presence.

Not everyone is open to bliss and silence as their process so the arising of those things you mention, can cause much grief as an outward projection not fully aware of itself. Programming runs deep in the subconscious so it’s always better to be aware and mindful of those issues playing out, to develop presence with what is and allow the fullness in feelings, mind contained, body reactions, to be released.

Bliss and silence at the forefront of ‘burning up the old’ is a great way to not be engaged in the containment, but unfortunately it’s not always the way everyone walks through their purification process.

i agree. the discussion was about reason of practice. the reason is to open up to whats beyond the mind. which is the point of the practice. im not at all suggesting that all kinds of things aren't helpful for ones life. my point is to not confuse things that may be helpful as the point of worship. if people confuse the practice as the reason. then how could anyone know the possibility of whats beyond the practice?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by running

i agree. the discussion was about reason of practice. the reason is to open up to whats beyond the mind. which is the point of the practice. im not at all suggesting that all kinds of things aren't helpful for ones life. my point is to not confuse things that may be helpful as the point of worship. if people confuse the practice as the reason. then how could anyone know the possibility of whats beyond the practice?

The practice is when you know what's happening now, but to know what is, as it is, you have to stop the volition and 'just be aware'. If we have future objectives we can see how the mind imagines things to desire, and that is also impelled by aversions to the lived reality as it is, and I think we can see easily that these reactive urges to move the mind disrupt one's peaceful disposition - yet the purpose of meditation is to notice these things; not to make them stop or go away, yet in the fact of noticing, you stop and see, so the effect of cessation is still there. Its not a 'result' of practice - it's noticing 'how it is' at the moment.


People are distracted and the reactive process is habitualised, so we can formalise meditation as a technique of remembering to notice 'what is', and that's because 'this' is all there is. There is no 'future you' or 'past you'. It's 'you as you are now' and it's already a fact that you are aware of 'this'.


People also have issues that are too much to face, distorted by self hatred from long term conditioning, and that means things are hidden away which need to come out, so the method of meditation should enhance the ability to see more deeply so that light of conscious awareness penetrates deep into the darkness of unconsciousness, and there is a difference between honing this ability and trying to get some sort of experience 'later on'.


This means the underlying impulse is ardent for what is true, and to know what is true in the direct subjective sense is in the noticing, and in the moment of noticing, doing has already stopped. Hence it is said, the end of volition is the way of meditation. I mean, within Buddhist teaching volition is 'kamma' and meditation is 'the way' the cease producing kamma (rebirth and all that stuff) What I'm saying is very direct to the point - at least as far as Buddhism is concerned, anyway.



This firstly follows a logical sequence, so one might wonder, maybe this is true? But not believing it. Not because Buddha said a bunch of things some thousands of years ago. Just because stopping for maybe one second to take notice of what's 'just happening' and knowing what that's like - and I'm not saying it's anything special.


In this, it is not relevant to have bliss or energy or chakras. These might be the experience of someone whereas someone else knows of themselves such things are not experienced. What I'm talking about is already 'beyond experience' as it does not matter what experience any individual is having - it's simply true we are aware of the experience 'as it is now'... 'This' is where we live, and there is no purpose anywhere else, and as one zen feller said 'In meditation there is'.


Not too serious OK. Just having a rant for a while, and this is only the internet. Freaks like me all over the place!!!

[r6r6]

Gem---The practice is when you know what's happening now,

As suckling baby is in bliss and maybe the know it. They certainly desire it. Very here and now. Many mothers may approach bliss in many of these suckling morments also.

In this, it is not relevant to have bliss or energy or chakras

Tell that to the baby or mother.

Not too serious OK. Just having a rant for a while, and this is only the internet. Freaks like me all over the place!!!

Rant away! Add some music as a Rave and let the trance-dancing bliss begin.

Pump it up! oot! OOT! Spin it around oot! OOT! Take It UP! Take it to top! Up and Over Up and Over! Pearl Harbor and the Explosions LINK

Live Pearl Harbor and Explosions https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...+peral+harbour

Breathing --- dancing --- breathing --- chop wood --- breathing, dancing chop wood

Equanimity mind stems from breathing, eating, sleeping, digestive processes, human attention and orgasm in that order are the primary set of 7 that aid me personally in finding my personal equanimity of mind.

1} breathing ---ergo a born-out baby-- is its level of contemplation significantly differrent than existence as a fetus, and of course the fetus also has gone through many celluar changes over 9 months?

2} eating ---contemplation during a warm wet nipple is very close to bliss and that is my best guess. A bottle is maybe 50? to 70? percent less effective in approaching bliss,

3} sleeping --- I guess fetus sleeps{?},and contemplates{?} at some age. The newborn definitely sleeps a lot ---important for immune system as is mothers milk, -- no need to torture, just keep people from sleeping long enough and they will tell you anything you want to know. I was surprised that sleep deprivation was on the list of torture items.

4} bladder and bowel processing -- constricted or to much flow is outside of equanimity ergo mind is not less than equanimous controls direction of all contemplation.

5} human attention ---interaction with same species ---family of course and other--- is key and i more likely to lead to the following,

6} orgasm ---this one is going to happen one way or another. Pros and cons to both ways have their specific kinds of resultant consequences. In a sense it is likened to being single or married in havings its pros and cons.

7} Dance
Contemplation --as mediation-- comes naturally and occasionally the Universe throws me{ us } a curve ball that comes close to my{ our} heads { safety security } and awakens me to places where I was being not cautious enough or too cautious.

Uni-V-erse as God, may have a belly button, or, as set of many belly-buttons that connect --i.e cause and effect--- from its last phase of existence prior to the BBang event/WOW! we surmise occur 13.5 billion or so years ag

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Gem

I thought everything you posted in your previous post was saying equanimity had to do with non-reactivity. Now you seem to be saying you don't react because the feelings you once reacted to cease to occur, whereas I'm saying there will be feelings, but you are simply aware, 'feels like this', without any reactions to it. In this way, equanimity is completely regardless to your experience.


The difference in our narratives is I say an itch arises but you don't react, as opposed to you saying, the itch no longer arises so there's nothing to react to.

Yes, what I am saying you have cleared the obstructions. You are saying you still have emotional reactions, obstructions don’t release but you focus on not reacting.

Your way isn’t bad. We all are hit with obstructions and then apply skillful means to deal with the local mind response. That can be residing in mindfulness, residing in the energy or letting it go into silence. All will work.

Yet there is an obstruction and you are reacting and applying a means to deal with it. One can try for equanimity but true equanimity has none of those steps.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by running

no need to kill the human is the point im trying to make.

Why attach to such limitations?

[running]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Why attach to such limitations?

a human in acceptance of being so has nothing to protect. a human portraying an idea of a or the god will have to live in dishonesty of itself. its important if one wishes to go far to be open. not set in a way or ones way which is closed. being human is humbling. trying to be god or a god is not.

[running]

Originally Posted by Gem

The practice is when you know what's happening now, but to know what is, as it is, you have to stop the volition and 'just be aware'. If we have future objectives we can see how the mind imagines things to desire, and that is also impelled by aversions to the lived reality as it is, and I think we can see easily that these reactive urges to move the mind disrupt one's peaceful disposition - yet the purpose of meditation is to notice these things; not to make them stop or go away, yet in the fact of noticing, you stop and see, so the effect of cessation is still there. Its not a 'result' of practice - it's noticing 'how it is' at the moment.


People are distracted and the reactive process is habitualised, so we can formalise meditation as a technique of remembering to notice 'what is', and that's because 'this' is all there is. There is no 'future you' or 'past you'. It's 'you as you are now' and it's already a fact that you are aware of 'this'.


People also have issues that are too much to face, distorted by self hatred from long term conditioning, and that means things are hidden away which need to come out, so the method of meditation should enhance the ability to see more deeply so that light of conscious awareness penetrates deep into the darkness of unconsciousness, and there is a difference between honing this ability and trying to get some sort of experience 'later on'.


This means the underlying impulse is ardent for what is true, and to know what is true in the direct subjective sense is in the noticing, and in the moment of noticing, doing has already stopped. Hence it is said, the end of volition is the way of meditation. I mean, within Buddhist teaching volition is 'kamma' and meditation is 'the way' the cease producing kamma (rebirth and all that stuff) What I'm saying is very direct to the point - at least as far as Buddhism is concerned, anyway.



This firstly follows a logical sequence, so one might wonder, maybe this is true? But not believing it. Not because Buddha said a bunch of things some thousands of years ago. Just because stopping for maybe one second to take notice of what's 'just happening' and knowing what that's like - and I'm not saying it's anything special.


In this, it is not relevant to have bliss or energy or chakras. These might be the experience of someone whereas someone else knows of themselves such things are not experienced. What I'm talking about is already 'beyond experience' as it does not matter what experience any individual is having - it's simply true we are aware of the experience 'as it is now'... 'This' is where we live, and there is no purpose anywhere else, and as one zen feller said 'In meditation there is'.


Not too serious OK. Just having a rant for a while, and this is only the internet. Freaks like me all over the place!!!

gem, everything your saying is based upon the idealogy you have come to work with. the practice you work with. this may be valid for you right now. or the belief of it made it so. perhaps for some other people. but thats as far as it goes. life isn't much different than the spiritual process. where the past, present, future, efforts put forth, and so on are not hindrances but all parts of the equation for growth. busting through and past the mind.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by running

a human in acceptance of being so has nothing to protect. a human portraying an idea of a or the god will have to live in dishonesty of itself. its important if one wishes to go far to be open. not set in a way or ones way which is closed. being human is humbling. trying to be god or a god is not.

What is humbling is what you attach to. Trying to be a god or pretending to be is an attachment.

Move beyond all attachments and is it not written that ye are gods?

What do you think a Buddha is? ;)

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by running

i agree. the discussion was about reason of practice. the reason is to open up to whats beyond the mind. which is the point of the practice. im not at all suggesting that all kinds of things aren't helpful for ones life. my point is to not confuse things that may be helpful as the point of worship. if people confuse the practice as the reason. then how could anyone know the possibility of whats beyond the practice?

The reasons can also be to understand the practice. So it can all be very useful to the awareness as a whole. For me it was to understand my mind and open it, not attached or contained by reasons for anything. The experience from there continues to become an integration into my body as my being. Everything one walks through as their process becomes stepping stones of a bigger picture. ‘Beyond practice’ has no bearing on what is an integrative process that each of us are constantly moving with as things are. The practice can be a lived experience. Are we coming to know beyond something? Or coming to know what is?

The differences in these questions show how one might be reaching to move beyond and the other is staying very present with what is as it is. Perhaps it’s just your figure of speech?

When I moved to far ‘out there’ where I was not grounded in reality, I had a sudden fall back into myself. The expanded view had no where else to go but into my body..this shift meant I had deeper more subtle levels to work through without the aid of my higher assistance. You might say. ‘It was time to get real’. Where I am now is at the top of this mountain taking in this view.

[sentient]

Again I don’t know if my explanation explains anything but cause yet more confusion …

Originally Posted by running

thank you for sharing! that is if im understanding it right how bliss and or silence operate. that space is there irrespective of what is.

Yes - that space is ever-present.
But not everyone acknowledges that spacious nondual openness (or acknowledges the indivisibleness of that/this) and instead is aware and focused on this only.

The ‘Enlightened Mandala’ (as a representation of our living situation) is showing that spacious nondual openness as its centre .... which in turn creates an ‘enlightened environment’ where emotions have now become or have now been transmuted into wisdoms or as aspects of that openness or as extensions of that openness .....

But …..

if that spacious nondual openness at the centre of the Mandala (as a representation of our living situation) …. is ignored – and instead - the ego is – or the false self of a narcissist (an extreme example) is at the centre of it (of our awareness) “pretending to be God or Moses” ….. then that environment becomes rather toxic, because the false self in its efforts, in its struggle to prove, to validate, to secure and to fortify its existence tries to control and to manipulate the ‘external world’ to its will to that aim with propaganda and uses emotions like its army, but in a completely unconscious compulsive, obsessive, neurotic, toxic way ……

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Practices aimed at taming the wild horse mind, aimed at curing the mind of its neurotic tendencies are good. But if you have gone beyond the mind, then these practices no longer apply to you.

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So the Mandala is like showing where we are AT.
And where we are AT creates its own environment, the same emotions either show our 'enlightened' or 'toxic/neurotic' qualities.

If that makes sense.
The youtube perhaps explains it better:
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...&postcount=647

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