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  #681  
Old Today, 03:13 PM
r6r6r r6r6r is offline
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7luminaries---These needs are more important than nearly any other for the intrinsically weaker and the intrinsically more vulnerable.......these are inherent needs (for physical and bodily safety) day-to-day of the weaker and more vulnerable on their journey to live from centre in equanimity and with lovingkindness for one and all equally. Peace & blessings 7L[/quote]
Equanimity mind stems from breathing, eating, sleeping, digestive processes, human attention, orgasm, dance via music in that order are the primary set of 7 that aid me personally in finding my personal equanimity of mind.

7L, we are all 'born free' within the contextual set of circumstances of our environment irrespective of any and all potential dangers, that, each individual will deal with, ---each in their own way--- that those 6 + = 7 primaries will directly effect our ability to contemplate/meditate on our circumstances.

And yes, we could have shelter instead of dance via music, however, in some circumstances, dance and music can occur without need for shelter.

Shelter/clothing is likened to security and safety and aids in having a secure safe dry place to contemplate/meditate, when it is too cold or too wet outside.

So maybe 6 + 2 = 8. Again, each individual will deal with the circumstances they are born into differrently and in some cases that may mean they will remove themselves from on set of circumstances, to get more freedom, however, they may find themselves in equally, or more dire set of circumstances, to contemplate/mediate upon.

The only differrence may be that they have fulfilled their personal desires for whatever it is there seeking, freedom from;

freedom from a man{ men }
freedom from a woman{ women }
freedom from a parent{ man or woman }

freedom from tigers
freedom from disease

freedom from cold climate
freedom from leeches

freedom from noise{ city }
freedom from mundane boredom{ small country town }

So on and so on. We all are 'born free' with what ever set of circumstances. 6 + 2 = 8 circumstances that are immediate to most of us, barring other external factors that limit/constrain our freedoms.

We are born into life and life has it limits/constraints. None are created equal. Humans pass laws that are meant to enable equality in many circumstances.

There exists no perfect systems, only varying standards of livings and each individuals personal feelings of security/safety, and happiness, to whatever degree, within those systems their born into and/or the ones they choose to move too.
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  #682  
Old Today, 03:52 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Originally Posted by r6r6r
7luminaries---These needs are more important than nearly any other for the intrinsically weaker and the intrinsically more vulnerable.......these are inherent needs (for physical and bodily safety) day-to-day of the weaker and more vulnerable on their journey to live from centre in equanimity and with lovingkindness for one and all equally. Peace & blessings 7L

Quote:
Equanimity mind stems from breathing, eating, sleeping, digestive processes, human attention, orgasm, dance via music in that order are the primary set of 7 that aid me personally in finding my personal equanimity of mind.

….

We are born into life and life has it limits/constraints. None are created equal. Humans pass laws that are meant to enable equality in many circumstances.

There exists no perfect systems, only varying standards of livings and each individuals personal feelings of security/safety, and happiness, to whatever degree, within those systems their born into and/or the ones they choose to move too.

r6, hello!
Again, I disagree that your hierarchy of needs is the same for everyone. I also think it goes without saying that laws alone cannot address the bulk of the imbalances, even beyond the fact that existing laws fail to address most of the fundamental imbalances we observe in human society.

YES, there are and will always be fundamental differences in that hierarchy of needs, and YES, they are based DIRECTLY on the intrinsic imbalances that exist within our human species. And YES, ultimately, it is the responsibility of each of us and all of us to seek to manifest and sustain equanimity both individually and collectively, such that we address the most foundational imbalances.

Some of us are intrinsically weaker and intrinsically more vulnerable. Others are intrinsically stronger and intrinsically less vulnerable. There are clear spiritual challenges all round.
However, the lion's share of the manifest obligation will always rest upon the shoulders of the intrinsically more powerful, less vulnerable, and thus more advantaged and more privileged.

That is because, beyond breathing (at least for now that is free), all other needs constitute access to resources which ultimately the strong can, will, and DO control through direct or indirect force (their own fists, or the fist of armies/weapons/state authority).

Equanimity at centre of one and all equally is consciously sustained through manifest action ensuring equal access to resources that address our key needs. Mine being somewhat different to yours, as I fall into the intrinsically weaker and intrinsically more vulnerable. I cannot exist and certainly cannot thrive without addressing my hierarchy of needs, same as you. Difference being that I ultimately exist at your whim and at the whim of all those who are more powerful and who can easily assault, rape, or oppress me by force or threat in any situation.

I (and all who are intrinsically weaker and more vulnerable) ultimately can never attain free, equal, and necessary access to resources to address MY hierarchy of needs unless you (and all who are intrinsically more powerful and less vulnerable) grant it or allow it or support it.

That inherent, intrinsic power REQUIRES your ownership and your acknowledgement of your inherently greater responsibility in any situation where you can (at your whim) enforce your will over others who are more vulnerable, IF equanimity and lovingkindness are extended mutually and reciprocally to the social community and larger environment in which you and I and all others must exist and obtain resources to address our fundamental hierarchy of needs.

The need for parity and equal consideration of physical safety and bodily integrity in our day-to-day engagement is a critical need for half of humanity...right up there with breathing.
It remains firmly on our hierarchy of needs and it remains near the very top.


It comes down to this..

1) You have rightly acknowledged that attaining and sustaining equanimity of mind and body comprises a variety of core foundational physical needs, along with (further down) emotional, intellectual, and spiritual needs.

2) The hierarchy of needs differs foundationally amongst the intrinsically stronger and the intrinsically weaker, due to intrinsic (foundational) differences in our physical humanity, at the most basic level.

That is, what we require to simply exist (to exist individually AND to exist collectively) differs.

3) Equanimity exists as we (humanity) do, both as a function of our individual and collective existence.

4) Given this, the foundational needs of the intrinsically weaker and more vulnerable REQUIRE that the intrinsically more powerful & less vulnerable acknowledge and own their greater power, and that they take ownership for the greater responsibilities that this greater power entails.

5) This is the way of equanimity, to (consciously) manifest what is required to attain balance for one and all equally.

And the way of equanimity from centre will manifest lovingkindness in the very act of addressing imbalance and seeking balance.

Peace & blessings
7L
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  #683  
Old Today, 04:26 PM
r6r6r r6r6r is offline
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7luminaries---r6, hello! Again, I disagree that your hierarchy of needs is the same for everyone.

Ok 7L, then please post yours. Here is my relatively simple 6 + 1 = 7 set, and again, I leave off shelter{ security/safety } because in some some circumstance all of the others can occur without clothing/shelter needed.

Equanimity mind stems from breathing, eating, sleeping, digestive processes, human attention, orgasm, dance via music in that order are the primary set of 7 that aid me personally in finding my personal equanimity of mind.

Your set goes here >____fill in the blank___________
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  #684  
Old Today, 04:32 PM
r6r6r r6r6r is offline
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7luminaries--YES, there are and will always be fundamental differences in that hierarchy of needs, and YES, they are based DIRECTLY on the intrinsic imbalances that exist within our human species.

Circumstances includes more than just "our human species". I was very clear on this and you dont seem to grasp the significance of my use of that word 'cirumstances' to be more inclusive, and not less inclusive as your given above does i.e. your given above is is just one part of any greater set of circumstances that we are 'born free' into.
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  #685  
Old Today, 08:19 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Ok 7L, then please post yours.
r6, I have posted mine earlier, and I think there were 8 items, using your general hierarchy but modifying, collapsing, and adding where critical.

I think it is fine to say this is MY hierarchy and even that it would broadly care for those like me.

But that it's not relevant to say that MY hierarchy is applicable to you or to all others, particularly for those broadly and intrinsically different to me.
The hierarchies define different "resources" that we need or require to survive and/or to function at a baseline level of integrity and wholeness.
And access to those resources is constrained first and foremost by our intrinsic power and intrinsic vulnerability differential. That is simple fact.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
7luminaries--YES, there are and will always be fundamental differences in that hierarchy of needs, and YES, they are based DIRECTLY on the intrinsic imbalances that exist within our human species.

Circumstances includes more than just "our human species". I was very clear on this and you dont seem to grasp the significance of my use of that word 'cirumstances' to be more inclusive, and not less inclusive as your given above does i.e. your given above is is just one part of any greater set of circumstances that we are 'born free' into.
r6, of course it is a very basic level of mitigation...the basic physical level of intrinsic difference which clearly serves to mitigate and differentiate access to the "resources" needed to address our respective hierarchies.

The additional "levels" or factors beyond the physical are irrelevant in the larger sense. No matter what those may be, no matter how broadly or narrowly we may be intrinsically favoured in the material realm, and no matter where we are on our spiritual journeys, EVERY incarnation is an opportunity to move into equanimous right-alignment with self AND others...and more broadly all that is. We are certainly responsible for ourselves AND our contribution to humanity...and more broadly to all that is.

Our individual humanity exists and comes to be in community, in the human collective. Toward collectivity and interbeing, we can and arguably should start with addressing the most foundational, concrete intrinsic imbalances which are used to perpetrate misalignment.

Focusing on the most obvious and concrete fundamental axis of difference, it is physical and even more obviously and substantially rooted in our physical sex. This is the root of the inherent weakness and inherent physical vulnerability of one half of humanity relative to the other, who is inherently more powerful and less vulnerable. And it is this obvious and concrete fundamental axis of broad, intrinsic difference which has been exploited and abused egregiously to perpetrate misalignment and dehumanisation since time immemorial. Thus, it is something we are called to address with EACH and every incarnation, whether male or female but ESPECIALLY if we are male and therefore intrinsically advantaged in the power differential. And certainly in pursuit of equanimity and equanimous lovingkindness both individually and collectively.

Because the intrinsic power differential cannot be changed genetically and is resistant to merely superficial (external) treatments, the power and vulnerability differential is at the very core of our movement both individually and collectively toward equanimity and balance. Toward right-alignment with all that is.

Addressing the intrinsic power differential must ultimately be done mindfully and consciously in every moment, as this intrinsic advantage can be used by men over women either toward misalignment OR toward alignment. Either toward imbalance, predation, and dehumanisation (misalignment) OR toward balance in equanimity, honourable coexistence, and parity.

This stark choice must be consciously owned, consciously revised, and consciously addressed in each moment. Currently the equanimity and the general state of being of the powerful rests on imbalance. On both the implicit and overt use of force and threat of force.

Only when the foundational use or threat of force is consciously addressed and intentionally re-balanced in each moment, will the powerful AND the weak/vulnerable each attain a truly in(ter)dependent equanimity and balance.
Only then is your equanimity or mine or whomever's interdependent (i.e., healthy and unbounded), rather than codependent (based on an inherent structural relationship of force and predation).
Only then is anyone's foundational equanimity and balance -- as described by our different hierarchies -- truly whole, integral, and no longer implicitly or overtly (co)dependent on the power differential and the whims of the powerful.

Humanity, and certainly our individuated consciousness, exist in interbeing and not in a vaccuum. This is truth, and many if not most are still struggling with ownership and interbeing, and the clear implications for the individual.

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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