Guru Trap

Now, lets be honest, there are genuine gurus out there, and the failures of the false gurus should not have consequences for the real ones. :]

Loved your post SB but how does someone know if someone is a real guru and what would the real guru be doing differently?

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Siddha Buddha

The guru trap may appear as the that one setting up their self to have realized some kind of enlightenment others can't achieve, commune and/or experience; that one may set up the future to be where the magic happens. The guru may tell their students that they will need the guru forever, or that the guru is the gate to God. Some claim to be taking you home, or preparing you for some global event, or prophecy. All is some kind of trap, but the devotees of God must be responsible. A bridge is built from both sides of the river. I would suggest that the guru is already in your heart. Ideas of having an objective guru, verses subjected - within yourself, lead to people falling into differing forms of dependency. Be responsible and research a teacher, read many of the teachings, try and talk to current disciples under the guru. Blindly following a guru, is not beneficial to ones spiritual practice. Ultimately, one can always commune perfectly and freely As, with and through God. No one else is necessary.

Now, lets be honest, there are genuine gurus out there, and the failures of the false gurus should not have consequences for the real ones. :]

Nicely said.
How do you describe the experience of red to a blind man or music to a deaf man? Or of love...or sadness...even though we all know it?
How do you describe the beauty and energy of a glowy green and pink heart chakra vs a crusty layered one...
..or a million other things that must be experienced and are poorly described?

Everyone's spiritual path is their own. I think no one can judge another's path...it is what it is...but every path has opportunities for growth and beauty.

I think gurus (authentic...and we can all weigh in for ourselves here) can provide immense guidance and support..but not often in the ways we think. Anyone can read a book...but the guru can, if you're ready, show you the path to self experience.

peace/blessings.
7L

How do you describe the experience of red to a blind man or music to a deaf man? Or of love...or sadness...even though we all know it?
How do you describe the beauty and energy of a glowy green and pink heart chakra vs a crusty layered one...
..or a million other things that must be experienced and are poorly described?

Experienced or a metaphoric experience which we create due to being told by gurus that it exists. The mind is very powerful in creating these experiences and as they are metaphoric we either subscribe to them or not. There is no physical seeing of a chakra for example for humanity or it would be included in biology texts. The chakra could be a concept some people think might be there and from that belief will create the experience it is there. I am not saying that is bad thing we but can't say its fact. I love metaphoric healing, its very powerful but the metaphors are a representation and not the reality.

Thats why descriptions vary on huge levels and also the gurus add a bit more as of course they can see more.

personally I am mezmerized and rendered helpless by Osho's grey beard of divine wisdom.

[Emmalevine]

On another level...maybe chakras and the like are so widely known about because they point to a truth and always have done?

Yes they can't be biologically explained, but then a lot can't. It doesn't mean it's all a product of one's mind. I've experienced stuff without having a clue what's happening, so I have no concepts to latch onto. It is only when talking to others it makes sense.

There will always be gurus who retain their ego attachment and give info in order to boost it, but I believe most people speak truth with the intention of spreading it. We can give or take what they say...most genuiine gurus state that the truth can only be known by and exist within us.

Beliefs are going to be subjective but each and every one of us has the right to express the truth as we see it, which of course includes you Shepherd. But please realise that in expressing the truth as you see it is exactly what others are doing, with great faith that it is the ultimate truth.

[Chrysaetos]

I'm totally with you there, Shep.
We must never forget the context. Chakras come from a time when we knew little about physiology. People felt there was a beating in the heart, they felt there was something in the throat, in the head (thoughts), they felt the body was working overtime after eating. And they felt their mojo powers down below!

What are you going to do when you have little knowledge about physiology?
Well maybe invent some ideas that correspond with these important parts in the body..

So if any guru tells me we got chakras, karmas, samsaras.. let him prove it.
No visualisation, imagination, or beliefs should be required for those who are simply sceptical. It would only give the desired result for the believer.

[A19White]

"Gurus" or "spiritual teachers" are often misunderstood. As i know in this thread there is much misunderstanding going on. The mind has a hard time with abstract concepts. It tries to rationalize, conceptualize and "figure out". Enlightenment, or lack of ego what ever you wish to call it is greater than the mind. So one cannot go about understanding it with their mind.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Chrysaetos

I'm totally with you there, Shep.
We must never forget the context. Chakras come from a time when we knew little about physiology. People felt there was a beating in the heart, they felt there was something in the throat, in the head (thoughts), they felt the body was working overtime after eating. And they felt their mojo powers down below!

What are you going to do when you have little knowledge about physiology?
Well maybe invent some ideas that correspond with these important parts in the body..

So if any guru tells me we got chakras, karmas, samsaras.. let him prove it.
.

Great OP Shep.

Squatch, yas maka me laff.

No visualisation, imagination, or beliefs should be required for those who are simply sceptical. It would only give the desired result for the believer

The imaginary stuff just gives some temporary comfort then the same stress anxiety recurrs, and people have to face reality to permanently resolve their issues, so I like a lot what you said... and henceforth you are my guru.

Gem: people have to face reality to permanently resolve their issues

This is why I'm big on getting problems taken care of in the physical sense. I like to see (or feel - as in healing my body from pain that it had) tangible results...don't know why, but that's the way that I am.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Kapitan_Prien

This is why I'm big on getting problems taken care of in the physical sense. I like to see (or feel - as in healing my body from pain that it had) tangible results...don't know why, but that's the way that I am.

Hi Kappy! (That's happy with a Kapital K.)

Sometimes a painful injury will just be a lifelong issue, I mean a severed limb won't grow back... and emotions manifest as sensations in the body too, like a knot in yer gut or a lump in yer throat or love in yer heart. It's not like we imagine that, it just occurs.

On the other hand, it's not like there's a stress anxiety running around which we can just catch and kill... but there is increased heartrate, rapid shallow breath, stiff neck etc... symptoms.

Everything can be felt in the body really and I think the physical is the tangible way to go!