Is This Reality Perfect?

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Did I say it was 'wrong'? I said: "I would advise you to stay away from 'heavy metal' music if you are 'into' it, that is if you wish to take the 'other' path." It is time for you to 'own' your own distortions of the truth, inquire into and examine yourself as to what (in you!) gave rise to these, and make life-course-corrections in said regard, again, that is if you wish to change the tragic-tragectory you are clearly on, again, by your own admission (in your signature lines).:

Well yea, it certainly seems so why else would you advise against it? One's preference of music has nothing to do with the path one chooses in life... You can be part of any spiritual group or even Christian and still be INTO metal. You make it sound like the whole metal community is some organised cult that decides your everyday life, while that certainly isn't the case. Sorry but I can't help but find myself disagree with you at this part.

Maybe so and maybe not. The 'release' of anger, rage, stick-your-tongue out and middle-finger-up at what is experienced as Life's 'badness' does make people 'happy' - providing a kind of catharsis, like vomiting up 'bad' food', I think. Here is a link to an news article which lends support to my view rather than yours. Of course, the 'whole truth', including the truth about what it actually does to and for you is something I cannot and do not know. Continue 'reveling' in it if that's your choice ...

This stereotyping of metal hails from a majority of people that know nothing about the metal community, or never even bothered to dig into it's true aspects. There are so many metal bands that do NOT sing about anger, death or suicide, but instead promote happiness, peace, or even spirituality. And the ''anger rage middle finger'' part you mention is merely a myth that is also based on stereotyping. I've personally met the vocalist of Equilibrium (a black/folk metal band from Germany) and he was one of the kindest and humble persons of the music industry I've ever met. He didn't do all that stuff you mentioned, and patiently took the time to take three pictures with me when two failed. And pretty much every band I like are like that, even the more darker and extreme ones.

Not exactly my idea of positive and uplifting, or what's really 'true' for that matter - in one life, one chance case, for instance, the Catholic Church branded the idea of reincarnation to be anathema as part of their campaign to brainwash people to buy into their version of reality and so inculcate complete adherence to their 'message' regarding 'salvation' and 'perdition'.

Ok as in your previous quote, I can tell this is getting nowhere. So instead of repeating the same things I said earlier, I suggest you to hear a few of the positive and uplifting metal I was talking about and see for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ECSArIwoqo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGEJSooXOSM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFWpMCAKstk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkEeZfGk2yc

Now if you actually bothered to spend a few minutes of your time to check it out, I highly doubt you could find anything dark and negative in those songs at all.

I am not disappointed (another 'untruthful' projection on your part, which 'serves' 'you' how, I wonder? Clearly then, your 'ego' is still 'alive' and 'protesting'. News flash: the billions of other humans on this planet are all going to die, the only difference being that some will do so sooner and others, and whether sooner or later, some will live and die more 'happily' (even ecstatically so!) and others will live and die more 'unhappily' (even 'desperately' and 'hopelessly' so).

How can I be disappointed when I have given you the very best I am able to give? I fulfilled my heartfelt desire because I chose to and did do that. Your acceptance or rejection of said 'gift' is your business. I long ago learned and embraced the fact that one, in this case I, can't please, let alone help, everyone!

As is true of everyone else (said billions included) your spiritual 'fate' is in your hands - and no one else's.

I gues Nondualism makes you happy, while in my case it would not benefit me or help me at all. Our paths are different, and so are our choices in life. Right now the last thing that would be in my best interest is to lose my sense of self because I do not like the concept of oneness with the rest of humanity (if that is what follows after ego-death). In fact, I find it rather downright disturbing.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by froebellian

No, I'm not getting ahead of myself and what is quite real is that this thread serves little purpose and there is no discussion, just people saying what they believe and that is not a discussion.

Seems like a click and bait header, something millennials think is acceptable and normal. A reality check here, it's not. I won't waste anymore of my time on a futile thread. Members blocked and out.

Same 'reality', different viewer/characterizer.

The point restated: Chacun a son gout, aye what?

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

I gues Nondualism makes you happy, while in my case it would not benefit me or help me at all. Our paths are different, and so are our choices in life. Right now the last thing that would be in my best interest is to lose my sense of self because I do not like the concept of oneness with the rest of humanity (if that is what follows after ego-death). In fact, I find it rather downright disturbing.

Whatever you choose for whatever reasons is fine with me, SOL. Just want to say that, as far as I can see, the piece writing from which I shared (or in the concept of what survives 'ego-death') that is non-dualistic.

It is really all 'one', but said 'one' is also really infinitely multiplistic, I think. In my view, 'dualism' and 'non-dualism' are really just intellectual concepts (no more than ideas!) which point to the existence of apparent 'opposites' and the hidden 'unity' between them. One's soul may blip-out of Being if it doesn't keep up with the wave-packet of Life, but yours will always be your soul and 'you' will always be a manifestation of 'it' (as long as 'you' exist, that is). I realize that there are people who hold and promote the idea of complete 'loss' of one's 'identity' as a 'unique' aspect of Life as a result of 'uniting' one's 'identity' with Life Itself. I don't hold hold that view. IMO, that can never happen, just as a 'husband' of 'wife' doesn't 'lose' his or her identity simply as a result of getting 'married' (even if they want to!).

I don't have the inclination to get into 'listening' to the songs you provided links to, but that doesn't mean that I automatically think you are wrong or deluded in you perceptions and claims. I have pointed to certain things related to Heavy Metal music which indicate aspects of the genre aren't what I would call positive. Nothing is 'good' in every way or 'bad' in every way - its that duality thing again - IMO.

All I can say with reasonable certainty, because I 'religiously' ;) believe in cause->effect as a principle - and so ask you to consider with reason - is that continuing to do the same set of things that one has been doing will lead to one's continuing to experience the same con-sequences that one has been experiencing.

Wishing you a happy landing, Bro!

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Badcopyinc

This post is the most amazing thing I've read today!
You're admitting that the original post is selfish and that your motives aren't altruistic. That is beautiful to me.

I was just discussing what the world would be like if everyone only worried about themselves and you're waving that flag very high my friend!

As far as I can see WabiSabi acknowledged his self-interest but didn't say that was the only thing he cared about, or 'worried about' as you put it.

I am prompted to ask: could you please clarify what the underlying intention was of your saying "I was just discussing what the world would be like if everyone only worried about themselves and you're waving that flag very high my friend!" which I read as implying that he was 'waving the flag of selfishness' 'very high' (which strikes me as being a pejorative statement in light of the words that preceded it? And, on top of that, adding "my friend"????

I am wondering if that's just you being 'true' to the 'true' meaning of your screenname: "Bad copy" or what in heaven's name the real significance of your choosing such a name for your 'self' might be?

IOW - acknowledging that I am speaking to everyone now - I am wondering if is this another example of a person projecting what's 'in' him, i.e. in his 'own' character, 'outward' and 'seeing' it in other aspects of Life around him?

[davidsun]

Speaking of something being 'perfect', WabiSabi, in Ch.4 of the book I completed in 1999 I wrote:

"So don’t let the present distress distract or disorient you. Darkness is a perfect ‘medium’ for light to shine and be seen in. There’s no reason to be turned off or withdraw from participation in what’s going on because of what is not yet of the highest order.a As you encounter ills along the way, ... choose to embrace positive possi*bili*ties which are ever-present. Believe me, when the dust settles and the smoke clears it will be abundantly apparent—our living planet will have become a more gracefully co*ordi*nated, qualitatively much more nurturing sphere."

Woohoo!

[revolver]

Everything is perfect just the way it is, it couldn't be any other way even if we tried.

Originally Posted by davidsun

As far as I can see WabiSabi acknowledged his self-interest but didn't say that was the only thing he cared about, or 'worried about' as you put it.

I am prompted to ask: could you please clarify what the underlying intention was of your saying "I was just discussing what the world would be like if everyone only worried about themselves and you're waving that flag very high my friend!" which I read as implying that he was 'waving the flag of selfishness' 'very high' (which strikes me as being a pejorative statement in light of the words that preceded it? And, on top of that, adding "my friend"????

I am wondering if that's just you being 'true' to the 'true' meaning of your screenname: "Bad copy" or what in heaven's name the real significance of your choosing such a name for your 'self' might be?

IOW - acknowledging that I am speaking to everyone now - I am wondering if is this another example of a person projecting what's 'in' him, i.e. in his 'own' character, 'outward' and 'seeing' it in other aspects of Life around him?

how you perceive my words and my screen name are reflective of you and your inner state and image of self. I do not need to explain my screen name if it bothers you figure out why it bothers you.

I read his post as honesty and being introspective. Something you don't seem to be seeing. Or doing for that matter.

Your assumption on my intent. Is just that assumption.

And the amount of logic and wisdom you seem to want to convey to everyone should also help you to figure out what the world would be like if everyone only worried about themselves.

Notice how I pointed out your flaw because it is also one of my own?
Maybe you could do well to go back and reassess your post to me using the logic you set fourth! (Projecting)

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Badcopyinc

how you perceive my words and my screen name are reflective of you and your inner state and image of self. I do not need to explain my screen name if it bothers you figure out why it bothers you.

I read his post as honesty and being introspective. Something you don't seem to be seeing. Or doing for that matter.

Your assumption on my intent. Is just that assumption.

And the amount of logic and wisdom you seem to want to convey to everyone should also help you to figure out what the world would be like if everyone only worried about themselves.

Notice how I pointed out your flaw because it is also one of my own?
Maybe you could do well to go back and reassess your post to me using the logic you set fourth! (Projecting)

Thank you for the thought-full-ness of your reply, Bad fella. I must say it still didn't (help me to) clear up my wonderings and consequent speculations about your character and what you intended to communicate in relation to WabiSabi. I remain 'suspicious' (as declared in my preceding response in relation to what you said to WabiSabi) regarding your present soul-configuration therefore.

BTW, in case you'd like to 'compare notes' in this regard, please know that I have already 'figured out' what the world would be like if there was an 'swell' and consequent lemming-behavior like 'avalanche' of people who only, meaning primarily, 'worried' (as you put it) about themselves and presented the dynamics of said scenario in my free-to-download book.

Originally Posted by davidsun

Thank you for the thought-full-ness of your reply, Bad fella. I must say it still didn't (help me to) clear up my wonderings and consequent speculations about your character and what you intended to communicate in relation to WabiSabi. I remain 'suspicious' (as declared in my preceding response in relation to what you said to WabiSabi) regarding your present soul-configuration therefore.

BTW, in case you'd like to 'compare notes' in this regard, please know that I have already 'figured out' what the world would be like if there was an 'swell' and consequent lemming-behavior like 'avalanche' of people who only, meaning primarily, 'worried' (as you put it) about themselves and presented the dynamics of said scenario in my free-to-download book.

you imply that im a bad fella, you started with suspicion? you feel as though its your job to judge my character?

What is it that you fear from me? or i should ask what inside of you are you projecting onto me?

If you understand what the world would be like if everyone "worried" about themselves then why do you ask me, such a bad fella for my view of something you fully comprehend and have written a book about?

but the real question is if you did completely know you and about you like you seem to about me then why did you even respond to a message that wasn't intended for you in the first place?

If you were taught as a child to worry only about you and to be completely introspective. my words to anyone else would not concern you in the slightest. (unless you didn't comprehend what i was saying) If anything you would view me as needing some self love myself not questioning me and my motives. as you would know my life is for me to make in my image not yours.

but i will stop reacting to you and do what i should have done from the beginning.

You are right. I'm so proud of you for writing your book and for being so proud of it. Thank you for pointing out the flaws in my view. thank you for pointing out the flaw in my name. i will now take much time to deliberate my life choices and possibly strive towards the level of consciousness you have attained. i will use your book as a road map! THANK YOU

I'm sending you love my friend and hope that your day is full of just that!

[davidsun]

[An aside to Froebellian, just in case he hasn't totally huffed-n-puffed himself 'out' of here: What follows is what a really 'perfect' :) 'discussion' actually IS about.]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

I would strongly encourage you to first examine the overarching assumption, or unconscious premise which allows the “Either/Or” paradigm - for example, as laid out in your OP - to represent (or speculate on) ultimate utility in these matters.

It is that very binary paradigm itself which serves to obscure the real circumstance, by the necessarily imposed exclusion of one of the two models, solely by virtue of the other model’s inclusion as sole truth…when really both are true - - they are not mutually exclusive. And not only that, one is derivative of, and dependent on the other.

Originally Posted by WabiSabi

I understand what you are saying [said to Jyotir], but I believe that you can go beyond that. You say that the Transcendental Will's purpose is to change ignorance to transcendence, but that would imply a beginning and an end. It begins in ignorance, and ends in awakening, and so the story is concluded and nothing else need happen.

I don't believe in beginnings and endings. Or rather I should say that I believe in relative beginnings and relative endings, but not absolutes. I believe that every beginning is an end and every end is a beginning.

It has been said that a 'picture' is worth 'a thousand words'. I think the following picture resolves (re-solves) the conundrum (being 'struggles' with above) which arises as a result of the limitations of strictly word-based, hence necessarily linear in terms of meaning-sequence, logic.



Also, in response to what WabiSabi then went on to express:

And so I would like to counter your statement. In order for there to be transcendence, there MUST be ignorance. You can't have one without the other. And considering the infinite nature of reality (the reality I experience mind you), it is always balanced and complete. Therefor, in order for ignorance to be destroyed, it must also be created. In order to experience awakening, one must first experience ignorance. And so these two opposites exist alongside each other as Yin and Yang, one never winning out over the other.

Within the infinite universe, there is infinite ignorance infinitely transforming into infinite transcendence.

I am sort of playing Devil's advocate here, because I do realize that both perfection and imperfection are true. But I truly see imperfection as perfect, as I define the word.

Also, you say that the two 'models' are both true, but that one is derivative of and dependent on the other. Why do you think that? I personally believe that both 'models' are equal, and that each is dependent on the other, and neither can exist without the other. I am curious to see what you say.

I would like to copy-share a one of 'naturesflows' posts from another thread:

Originally Posted by naturesflow

True Nature Illuminates Itself and Liberates Itself by Revealing Itself

When we understand the discerning capacity of true nature, we come to see that it teaches not only as revelation but as self-revelation. It illuminates itself and liberates itself by revealing itself. In its operation, this penetrating intelligence teaches us the capacity to learn. But as it teaches, it learns. As it reveals, it realizes. As it illuminates, it is enlightened. As it transforms, it evolves. We see that true nature is behind the whole process of learning, unveiling, and transformation. True nature awakens itself by guiding itself as the individual consciousness that appears to be inquiring. In reality, the inquiry of the individual is nothing but the way that true nature is revealing itself. It is Total Being functioning as the student eager to learn and as the teacher, outer or inner, skillfully guiding the student. This is the picture that we see when the discriminating intelligence synthesizes the role of the individual practicing and the action of true nature. It is a picture that emerges when this intelligence utilizes both dual and nondual perceptions in the same insight. This understanding is one of its awakenings: The inner teacher learns in the form of teaching an other which is a form of itself.

The Alchemy of Freedom, p. 126
http://www.ahalmaas.com/books/the-alchemy-of-freedom