Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Buddhism

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 13-03-2019, 06:55 PM
janielee
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
How lovely to have a royal monastic dwelling to rest, I'll make do with my bedroom

These (certain) monks lived very sparsely, and endured much hardships. You may find the link interesting.


106. APPROACHING DEATH
On October 29, 1983, Luang Pu's condition was no better than stable after 1:00 p.m., but his complexion was abnormally bright. His followers — lay people, town monks, and forest monks — came in large numbers for the celebration.

At 3:00 p.m., a large contingent of forest monks came to pay respect to Luang Pu, who sat up and discussed the Dhamma with them. Speaking in a clear voice, he advised them on the entire path of practice as if he were resolving all their doubts and questions, summarizing all the meditation instructions he had ever taught.

Later that night, near 10:00 p.m., Luang Pu had us take him out of his hut in a wheelchair. He looked gently around the whole area of the monastery, with no one realizing that that would be his last look at things outside.

107. ONE LAST RECOLLECTION OF THE DHAMMA
After 10:00 p.m., Luang Pu had us take him back into his room. He lay on his back, supported by a large pillow. He asked the eight or nine monks in the room to chant the Seven Blessing Chants for him to hear. Then he told them to chant the Sati-sambojjhanga Sutta three times, and Dependent Co-arising three times. Then he asked us to chant the Great Frames of Reference (Mahasatipatthana) Discourse, but none of us had memorized it. So he said, "Open your chanting books and chant from the book," but there were no chanting books around. Fortunately, Ajaan Phuunsak, who had been looking after Luang Pu all along, had brought his copy of the Royal Chanting Book, so he picked it up and searched through the book to find the right page, leafing back and forth until Luang Pu said, "Hand it here." He then opened the book to the right page without even looking at it and said, "Chant from right here." This amazed every monk in the room, for Luang Pu had opened the book right to the Mahasatipatthana Discourse, on page 172. The discourse was long, and it took us more than two hours to finish it. He listened quietly throughout.

108. FINAL WORDS
A few moments after we had finished chanting the Mahasatipatthana Discourse, Luang Pu began speaking about the Lord Buddha's total nibbana, from the beginning to the end. Here, I'll ask just to quote his concluding remarks:

"The Lord Buddha didn't attain nibbana in any of his jhanic attainments. When he left the fourth jhana, his mental aggregates all ceased at once, with nothing remaining. In other words, he allowed his feeling aggregate to cease in an awake state of mind, the normal human mental series, complete with mindfulness and alertness, with no other mental states coming to blind or delude the mind at all. This was the mind fully in its own state. You could call that state great emptiness, or the original cosmos, or nibbana, whichever you like. That's the state I've been practicing all along to reach."

Those were Luang Pu's last words.

109. A MOMENT OF WILDERNESS IN THE CITY
Let's go back in time for a moment to some events nearly 100 years ago. Luang Pu's group of four wandering monks and novices had split off from Ajaan Mun's group and were wandering through Thaa Khantho district in Kalasin province. As they went through the dense forest, they encountered all sorts of dangers and difficulties: every kind of wild animal and, in particular, malaria. Finally, one of the monks, unable to fight off the disease, died in a pitiful way right in front of his fellow monks. Worse than that, when Luang Pu split off from the group accompanied by just one small novice into another forest wilderness near Kut Kawm village, malaria came and took the life of the novice right before his eyes. Luang Pu could do nothing but look on in utter dismay, simply because he lacked the medicine to treat the disease.

Now come back to the events just after 4:00 a.m. on October 30, 1983. That same condition of wilderness returned for a moment in Luang Pu's room, for although he was seriously ill there wasn't a single nurse, not a single drop of saline solution anywhere around. There were simply Luang Pu's monastic students circled around him, as if protecting his total freedom to put down his body in a death that left no traces — completely pure, quiet, and calm.


Namaste

JL
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 13-03-2019, 07:06 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
Master
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,732
  jonesboy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by janielee
I'm sure that one day you will learn what the Buddha really taught, jonesboy.

JL

Ah, my post comes from access to insight just like yours.

Are you denying the teaching as well?
__________________
https://ThePrimordialWay.com/
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 13-03-2019, 07:11 PM
Rain95 Rain95 is offline
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 901
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
Okay, how about accepted views that have been handed down for thousands of years and been confirmed over and over by the billions that have practiced them.

All those people writing views and all the people accepting and confirming and practicing them
ate food. What I was wondering is how many of them had blueberries available? I tried googling
it but all it says is blueberries were domesticated in 1863.

But if they had access to them, how many ate them with their full awareness and attention?
Or was their attention on these accepted and confirmed views?

Mary: Hey let's go pick some blueberries!

John: In an hour maybe, I am writing down some important views.

Mary: Hey I got flour and butter and sugar and fresh blueberries! Wanna help me make a pie?

John: Not right now, I am trying to confirm these ideas.

Mary: The pie is done! Want to eat it?

John: In an hour, I have to practice this stuff.

An hour later. John gets a piece of pie.

Mary: Is it good?

John: Yea, Yea, you know some people said these ideas were wrong! That really makes me mad.

John gets up and starts arguing with someone outside. Mary picks up a plump fresh blueberry,
looks at it in wonder and amazement, then puts it in her mouth and smiles.
She whispers thank you, to no one in particular.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 13-03-2019, 07:13 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
Master
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,732
  jonesboy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain95
All those people writing views and all the people accepting and confirming and practicing them ate food. What I was wondering is how many of them had blueberries available? I tried googling it but all it says is blueberries were domesticated in 1863.

But if they had access to them, how many ate them with their full awareness and attention? Or was their attention on these accepted and confirmed views?

Mary: Hey let's go pick some blueberries!

John: In an hour maybe, I am writing down some important views.

Mary: Hey I got flour and butter and sugar and fresh blueberries! Wanna help me make a pie?

John: Not right now, I am trying to confirm these ideas.

Mary: The pie is done! Want to eat it?

John: In an hour, I have to practice this stuff.

An hour later. John gets a piece of pie.

Mary: Is it good?

John: Yea, Yea, you know some people said these ideas were wrong! That really makes me mad.

John gets up and starts arguing with someone outside. Mary picks up a plump fresh blueberry, looks at it in wonder and amazement, then puts it in her mouth and smiles. She whispers thank you, to no one in particular.

is not good.
__________________
https://ThePrimordialWay.com/
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 13-03-2019, 07:20 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
Master
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,732
  jonesboy's Avatar
Here are some more examples

Quote:
5. "Sariputta, this misguided man Sunakkhatta will never infer of me according to Dhamma: 'That Blessed One is accomplished, fully enlightened, perfect in true knowledge and conduct, sublime, knower of worlds, incomparable leader of persons to be tamed, teacher of gods and humans, enlightened, blessed.'[4]

6. "And he will never infer of me according to Dhamma: 'That Blessed One enjoys the various kinds of supernormal power: having been one, he becomes many; having been many, he becomes one; he appears and vanishes; he goes unhindered through a wall, through an enclosure, through a mountain, as though through space; he dives in and out of the earth as though it were water; he walks on water without sinking as though it were earth; seated cross-legged, he travels in space like a bird; with his hand he touches and strokes the moon and sun so powerful and mighty; he wields bodily mastery even as far as the Brahma-world.'

7. "And he will never infer of me according to Dhamma: 'With the divine ear element, which is purified and surpasses the human, that Blessed One hears both kinds of sounds, the heavenly and the human, those that are far as well as near.'

8. "And he will never infer of me according to Dhamma: 'That Blessed One encompasses with his own mind the minds of other beings, other persons. He understands a mind affected by lust as affected by lust and a mind unaffected by lust as unaffected by lust; he understands a mind affected by hate as affected by hate and a mind unaffected by hate as unaffected by hate; he understands a mind affected by delusion as affected by delusion and a mind unaffected by delusion as unaffected by delusion; he understands a contracted mind as contracted and a distracted mind as distracted; he understands an exalted mind as exalted and an unexalted mind as unexalted; he understands a surpassed mind as surpassed and an unsurpassed mind as unsurpassed; he understands a concentrated mind as concentrated and an unconcentrated mind as unconcentrated; he understands a liberated mind as liberated and an unliberated mind as unliberated.'

Quote:
18. (9) "Again, with the divine eye, which is purified and surpasses the human, the Tathagata sees beings passing away and reappearing, inferior and superior, fair and ugly, fortunate and unfortunate, and he understands how beings pass on according to their actions thus: 'These worthy beings who were ill-conducted in body, speech and mind, revilers of noble ones, wrong in their views, giving effect to wrong view in their actions, on the dissolution of the body, [71] after death, have reappeared in a state of deprivation, in a bad destination, in perdition, even in hell; but these worthy beings who were well-conducted in body, speech and mind, not revilers of noble ones, right in their views, giving effect to right view in their actions, on the dissolution of the body, after death, have reappeared in a good destination, even in the heavenly world.' Thus with the divine eye, which is purified and surpasses the human, he sees beings passing away and reappearing, inferior and superior, fair and ugly, fortunate and unfortunate, and he understands how beings pass on according to their actions. That too is a Tathagata's power...

19. (10) "Again, by realizing it for himself with direct knowledge, the Tathagata here and now enters upon and abides in the deliverance of mind and deliverance by wisdom that are taintless with the destruction of the taints. That too is a Tathagata's power that a Tathagata has, by virtue of which he claims the herd-leader's place, roars his lion's roar in the assemblies, and sets rolling the Wheel of Brahma.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi....012.ntbb.html

Quote:
abhiññā:Intuitive powers that come from the practice of concentration: the ability to display psychic powers, clairvoyance, clairaudience, the ability to know the thoughts of others, recollection of past lifetimes, and the knowledge that does away with mental effluents

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/glossary.html

Here are some more examples
__________________
https://ThePrimordialWay.com/
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 13-03-2019, 07:21 PM
sky sky is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 15,537
  sky's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by janielee
These (certain) monks lived very sparsely, and endured much hardships. You may find the link interesting.


106. APPROACHING DEATH
On October 29, 1983, Luang Pu's condition was no better than stable after 1:00 p.m., but his complexion was abnormally bright. His followers — lay people, town monks, and forest monks — came in large numbers for the celebration.

At 3:00 p.m., a large contingent of forest monks came to pay respect to Luang Pu, who sat up and discussed the Dhamma with them. Speaking in a clear voice, he advised them on the entire path of practice as if he were resolving all their doubts and questions, summarizing all the meditation instructions he had ever taught.

Later that night, near 10:00 p.m., Luang Pu had us take him out of his hut in a wheelchair. He looked gently around the whole area of the monastery, with no one realizing that that would be his last look at things outside.

107. ONE LAST RECOLLECTION OF THE DHAMMA
After 10:00 p.m., Luang Pu had us take him back into his room. He lay on his back, supported by a large pillow. He asked the eight or nine monks in the room to chant the Seven Blessing Chants for him to hear. Then he told them to chant the Sati-sambojjhanga Sutta three times, and Dependent Co-arising three times. Then he asked us to chant the Great Frames of Reference (Mahasatipatthana) Discourse, but none of us had memorized it. So he said, "Open your chanting books and chant from the book," but there were no chanting books around. Fortunately, Ajaan Phuunsak, who had been looking after Luang Pu all along, had brought his copy of the Royal Chanting Book, so he picked it up and searched through the book to find the right page, leafing back and forth until Luang Pu said, "Hand it here." He then opened the book to the right page without even looking at it and said, "Chant from right here." This amazed every monk in the room, for Luang Pu had opened the book right to the Mahasatipatthana Discourse, on page 172. The discourse was long, and it took us more than two hours to finish it. He listened quietly throughout.

108. FINAL WORDS
A few moments after we had finished chanting the Mahasatipatthana Discourse, Luang Pu began speaking about the Lord Buddha's total nibbana, from the beginning to the end. Here, I'll ask just to quote his concluding remarks:

"The Lord Buddha didn't attain nibbana in any of his jhanic attainments. When he left the fourth jhana, his mental aggregates all ceased at once, with nothing remaining. In other words, he allowed his feeling aggregate to cease in an awake state of mind, the normal human mental series, complete with mindfulness and alertness, with no other mental states coming to blind or delude the mind at all. This was the mind fully in its own state. You could call that state great emptiness, or the original cosmos, or nibbana, whichever you like. That's the state I've been practicing all along to reach."

Those were Luang Pu's last words.

109. A MOMENT OF WILDERNESS IN THE CITY
Let's go back in time for a moment to some events nearly 100 years ago. Luang Pu's group of four wandering monks and novices had split off from Ajaan Mun's group and were wandering through Thaa Khantho district in Kalasin province. As they went through the dense forest, they encountered all sorts of dangers and difficulties: every kind of wild animal and, in particular, malaria. Finally, one of the monks, unable to fight off the disease, died in a pitiful way right in front of his fellow monks. Worse than that, when Luang Pu split off from the group accompanied by just one small novice into another forest wilderness near Kut Kawm village, malaria came and took the life of the novice right before his eyes. Luang Pu could do nothing but look on in utter dismay, simply because he lacked the medicine to treat the disease.

Now come back to the events just after 4:00 a.m. on October 30, 1983. That same condition of wilderness returned for a moment in Luang Pu's room, for although he was seriously ill there wasn't a single nurse, not a single drop of saline solution anywhere around. There were simply Luang Pu's monastic students circled around him, as if protecting his total freedom to put down his body in a death that left no traces — completely pure, quiet, and calm.


Namaste

JL



I was referring to your previous post regarding Luang Pu resting in his Monastic Palace.

Thanks for the link
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 13-03-2019, 07:22 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
Master
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,732
  jonesboy's Avatar
Here is a very interesting story..

Quote:
In this sutta, the Buddha faces two antagonists: Baka, a brahma who believes that his brahma-attainment is the highest attainment there is; and Mara, who wants (1) to keep Baka under his power by allowing Baka to maintain his deluded opinion, and (2) to prevent the Buddha from sharing his awakened knowledge with others. Of the two, Mara is the more insidious, a point illustrated by the fact that Mara always speaks through someone else and never directly shows his face. (Another interesting point is illustrated by the fact that Mara is the source of the demand that one obey a creator god.)

In overcoming his antagonists, the Buddha asserts the superiority of his knowledge in two major fashions: through a description of his awakened knowledge and through a display of psychic powers.

The Buddha describes his awakened knowledge in a variety of ways:
by identifying Mara whenever he possesses an attendant of Baka's assembly,
by describing the full extent of Baka's power,
by identifying levels of being that Baka does not know,
by describing an awakened consciousness that is not known by means of any of the six senses at all,
by asserting an awareness that avoids delight in both becoming and the quest for non-becoming, and
by asserting that he has abandoned all possible conditions that would lead to further rebirth.

Some of these assertions — in particular, the assertion of a consciousness not mediated by any of the six senses — are extremely important dhamma lessons, which are further explained in the notes. But as the sutta shows, even the Buddha's description of these teachings was not enough to win over Baka or the members of his following. They were convinced only when the Buddha then performed a feat of psychic power that (1) even Baka could not fathom and (2) illustrated the Buddha's major point. Up to then, in identifying Mara and the range of Baka's power, the Buddha was in effect saying, "I see you, but you don't see me." With his display of psychic power, in which brahma and his following could not see him but could hear his voice, he demonstrated his point in such graphic terms that Baka and his following were immediately won over.

This next part is very important.

Quote:
Strictly speaking, of course, the Buddha's display of power did not prove that he had gone beyond becoming. After all, in becoming invisible to Baka, he may simply have gone to another level of becoming of which Baka was unaware. However, the Buddha correctly surmised that a display of power would subdue the pride of his listeners, awaken a sense of conviction in his attainment, and thus enable them to enter the path of practice. As he states in MN 27, only when one sees the four noble truths — usually a synonym for stream-entry — is one's conviction in the Buddha's Awakening confirmed. Only when one puts an end to one's mental fermentations does one have firm proof of the Buddha's Awakening. The Buddha notes in DN 11 that a display of psychic powers can sometimes backfire, in that one's audience might assume that one is engaging in cheap magic tricks. Thus, instead of inspiring conviction, the display simply increases doubt. Nevertheless, there are other instances in the Canon — most notably in the story of the Kassapa brothers (Mv.I.15-22) and that of Angulimala (MN 86) — where the Buddha was able to display his powers to good effect. Still, because he could not trust even his arahant disciples to possess his same sense of when such powers would work and when they would backfire, he forbade his disciples from displaying psychic powers to lay people. (See Cv.V.8; Buddhist Monastic Code, vol. 2, chapter 10.)

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi....049.than.html
__________________
https://ThePrimordialWay.com/
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 13-03-2019, 07:32 PM
Rain95 Rain95 is offline
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 901
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
' But the person reads the Sutta....and so stays lost. '

So what is the purpose of Suttas Rain? Maybe you read them and stay lost but not all. I would say they have the opposite effect....

Yea I was defining "person" there like an actors costume.
Some get what the Suttas are pointing at and some don't.
I think I'm using that word "person" like ego there basically.

I was reading the Satipatṭhāna Sutta and it was interesting because it kept listing opposites and saying you are aware it is there...

It starts out with the body...

“Breathing in long he knows ‘I am breathing in long.’
Breathing in short he knows ‘I am breathing in short.’
Breathing out long he knows ‘I am breathing out long.’
Breathing out short he knows ‘I am breathing out short.’

then actions....

when walking a monk knows, ‘I am walking;’
when standing, he knows, ‘I am standing;’
when walking, standing, sitting, falling asleep, waking up, talking, and
remaining silent he acts with comprehension.


awareness of what I am doing...

then feelings....

experiencing a pleasant feeling tone (sukha vedana) knows, ‘I am experiencing
a pleasant feeling tone;’
experiencing a painful feeling tone (dukkha vedana) knows ‘I am experiencing a
painful feeling tone;’

then states of mind

a craving mind state as a ‘craving mind state;’
a craving-free mind state as a ‘craving-free mind state,’
an aversive mind state as an ‘aversive mind state,’
an aversive-free mind state as an ‘aversive-free mind state,’
a delusive mind state as a ‘delusive mind state,’
a delusive-free mind state as a ‘delusive-free mind state,’
a collected mind state as a ‘collected mind state,’
a scattered mind state as a ‘scattered mind state,’

then the knowledge that comes from this observing without interpretation...

“Here, monks, when sensual desire is present within him, a monk knows,
‘Sensual desire is present within me.’
When no sensual desire is present within him, a monk knows, ‘No sensual
desire is present within me.’
He knows how sensual desire that has not yet arisen, comes to arise.
He knows how sensual desire, once it has arisen, can be abandoned.
He knows how an abandoned sensual desire does not arise in the future.

“Here, monks, when ill will is present within him, a monk knows, ‘Ill will
is present within me.’
When no ill will is present within him, a monk knows, ‘No ill will is
present within me.’
He knows how ill will that has not yet arisen, comes to arise.
He knows how ill will, once it has arisen, can be abandoned.
He knows how an abandoned ill will does not arise in the future.

Being here now, aware of what is, with the knowledge of how it came to be
and how it returns to how it was
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 13-03-2019, 07:41 PM
Rain95 Rain95 is offline
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 901
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
This next part is very important.

Do you believe Jesus could walk on water and turn water into wine?
Or do you just believe Buddha had powers?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 13-03-2019, 07:49 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
Master
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,732
  jonesboy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain95
Do you believe Jesus could walk on water and turn water into wine?
Or do you just believe Buddha had powers?

I believe they were both Buddhas and believe both.
__________________
https://ThePrimordialWay.com/
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums