Fruitarianism ♥

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Altair

Yeah don't drink with your food, it's not healthy..
I never order much drink in a restaurant because here you pay a lot for it. In your country you get as much as you want..
It's because your workers receive poor pay so they have to provide other services..

Anyway.. you do realize a fruit only diet won't be good for your teeth, right?



There's no 'design', we evolved..
There's no 'native human diet', only environment appropriate and culture appropriate diets..

Humans aren't ''meant to be'' a tropical species that only eat fruit. You may try the diet for a while..
Let us know how it goes when you do..

Yes, people live in all sorts of places, and even Africa is a big place covering tropics and sub trop;ics with coasts, mountains, jungles, deserts, savanas, islands... but people inhabit the whole world and adapted to different environments over millions of generations. No days we can pretend there are super miracle diets and be fake doctors and sell bogus supplements and tell people were frugarians, but if you want proper nutrition, listen to people who don't lie and talk about calories, nutrients, meal timing, and possibly supplements if required or convenient. That wat people of a rice based culture and a person of a noodle based culture can eat what their environment provides and still have great nutrition using completely different foods. Of course, there are no and never were any 'frugarians' and all that is merely a neurosis enabled by the convenience of modernity

[hallow]

Originally Posted by Altair

Yeah don't drink with your food, it's not healthy..
I never order much drink in a restaurant because here you pay a lot for it. In your country you get as much as you want..
It's because your workers receive poor pay so they have to provide other services..

Anyway.. you do realize a fruit only diet won't be good for your teeth, right?



There's no 'design', we evolved..
There's no 'native human diet', only environment appropriate and culture appropriate diets..

Humans aren't ''meant to be'' a tropical species that only eat fruit. You may try the diet for a while..
Let us know how it goes when you do..

When I looked at this thread honestly, I thought it was silly too. But then I thought about it. By definition a "fruit" could be a massive number plants. A fruit grows from the plants flower that contains seeds. Even a sunflower seed is considered a fruit. Peas and beans are even consider fruits. In a sense we are designed by evolution. If a design is "wrong" it will die or become weak. Also you can't plant fern in a desert it will die that plant is not designed or adapted to that environment. Like humans we are physically designed to live in the tropics. Without our problem solving skills we could not survive in cold climates. It's easy without the clothing we wear to get hypothermia in temps less than 50°f, we're better adapted to keep cool then we are to keep warm.

[Altair]

Hallow, ''design'' indicates there's a purpose, but life changes due to circumstances in the environment. If we were meant to live in the tropics we'd stayed there and we would all kept dark skin. We migrated and adapted to new environments, just like the many cat and bear species and everyone else. Humans don't need claws or stay naked. We're tool makers.. this changed the game for us..

These days people don't know what 'cold' is any more because of modern conveniences. I swim in water below 5C and feel a sunny day with 16C is very hot! It takes a lot to get me cold. I never put on the heating. When I was in the tropics I felt like I was assaulted from everywhere.. no escape! I loved it when the rain came..

[hallow]

Originally Posted by Altair

Hallow, ''design'' indicates there's a purpose, but life changes due to circumstances in the environment. If we were meant to live in the tropics we'd stayed there and we would all kept dark skin. We migrated and adapted to new environments, just like the many cat and bear species and everyone else. Humans don't need claws, able to safely digest raw food, or stay naked. We're tool makers.. this changed the game for us!!

These days people don't know what 'cold' is any more because of modern conveniences. I swim in water below 5C and feel a sunny day with 16C is very hot! It takes a lot to get me cold. I never put on the heating. When I was in the tropics I felt like I was assaulted from everywhere.. no escape! I loved it when the rain came..

I come from a very cool climate myself in winter we often see Sub-Zero temps. In summer I rarely see 90°f. I live on the shore of lake Michigan where the water is always cold. I know what you mean. I can handle the cold. And when it gets hot. My wife on the other hand HATES when it gets hot. Her mom and brother don't like the heat either. That's a way evolution works. Someone that doesn't do well in heat won't preform as well. I am sure I would feel miserable in a tropical environment too but Every person is different. But as a whole without clothes we could not live in a cold environment. Try setting your home thermostat at 60°f at rest with minimal clothes on. In time I am sure you start to shiver. That's what our bodies are designed to do when we're to cold. Our problem solving skills and tool making is a few of the main things that set us appart from the rest. without it, where would we be? Yes over time our bodies and minds have adjusted to what we made and they'll continue to adjust. I am not saying your wrong. I am just saying it's possible to sustain yourself in a way this topic is about.

[Sapphirez]

The concept of adaptation and evolution brings up a different reality and possibility.. Those are some good points hallow, not to be biased lol Obviously the world is very diverse and economically and environmentally fluctuating, but the truth is that we are at a very evolved state now where it would be extremely possible to recreate the paradise on Earth that it seems evident we're destined for. Why do societies spend tedious hours or months picking tiny little parcels of rice or fashioning grains into flours for pastas and all this as was mentioned as staple foods? Why wouldn't we just devote that time, energy, and monetary investment into building up vast gardens and that agriculture to supply societies with? Afterall one seed does not make one fruit, one seed makes the entire tree or bush or vine or whatever, and the possibilities from there are infinite within one little seed.


So why don't we have easy access to fruit even in more amiable climates? For one thing obviously people don't have the understanding about how important and ideal fruits or eating food fresh from the Earth are.. Maybe also some of it has to do with how the most influential powers in the world profit off of people's ineptitude and unwellness, as has been the case for most of history.. why are we not evolved to a state where our own neighborhoods make enough food for the area with pure untainted ripe food in abundance? Is it really that hard to imagine or implement? No it certainly is not, here on Earth things grow.. it's what they do. So we have to look at the bigger picture and pictures of the past and consider why we are at the state we are now.. And maybe just maybe consider that all sorts of food options we thought were smart or wise are similarly perilous and unfruitful as the typical processed junk food too many eat today. Why is it so hard for people to understand that food is supposed to be eaten close to the Earth? Or that eating living things is incomparable to eating dead things? Why would there even be a debate about it, isn't it common sense?


So many misconceptions have been drilled into our heads since birth or before it. Maybe we just need to use our own sensibility and sit down and think a little bit about it... If humans are the most evolved species on the planet (in at least some evident ways) then why wouldn't we eat the most evolved foods? Murdering other animals and eating their dead carcasses is obviously not in the running for the most enlightened form of consumption...
But fruit is the most evolved part of a plant. It is the most succulent, hydrating, detoxifying and regenerating. There are reasons for that. And there's a reason why it digests the quickest and most easily for us. The human body's digestive and other systems are not designed to be overworking nonstop. There are other things we are supposed to be able to devote energy to. So why would we consume foods that take 4 or so hours to digest? And why would we destroy our food before we even eat it because either it is too toxic raw or unpalatable and undesirable? It just doesn't make sense. God made the food for us as it is so we could easily pick it and consume it and thrive from it.


There are endless options as humans. Yes we can take all sorts of things and make them "edible" but does that really mean it is ideally supposed to be? We can travel to the icy shores of Alaska and live with the polar bears, but just because we can or some have, does that mean it is really what the reality is supposed to be? We can do and utilize a lot of things, so why not do things a better way that serves us and the entire world? Because things are corrupt, and our knowledge base and understanding of life and our existence on this precious yet temperamental planet are limited. but isn't that what we're here for? To figure it out and to make ourselves and whatever else we can better?

So what's the best case scenario or possibility? If you imagine a heaven on Earth, and you still have to eat (though of course some get into breathatarianism and dining on the Sun and such but that's another topic lol) what's going to be on the menu and why? If we truly evolve why would we eat corrupted things that take a toll on our bodies? And can we not foster creation of the Garden of Eden here on Earth now? I am not really into religions but hopefully the idea of that place is one that resonates fairly well enough, and if we imagine such a paradise, what would we be eating there? Would we be picking rice grains and stuff? lol doubtful.. would we be mass murdering the other creatures that inhabit it or stealing their baby's milk? highly unlikely.. how about eating bunches of raw beets and potatoes? I don't think so.. I mean don't get me wrong some vegetables I enjoy eating raw, a lot actually, but when you think of paradise and the most divine diet does that really come to mind? chomping on cauliflower or veggie platters without ranch? probably not... So if it makes sense that fruit is the most delectable natural food, and perfect in its original state, why do we think we have to distort and destroy nature to make our food? I believe that it makes sense on a spiritual and intellectual level as well as the physical level when devoting research and a little contemplation to the matter. And it isn't practical or feasible to eat all fruit at this exact moment in time, but if the people were as informed and free as we are supposed to be, we could easily make this a present reality. So why do we eat the junk that we do instead? If it hurts the body why eat it? The human body is a chemical factory in its own right, and it works symbiotically with nature, so why would we eat metal shavings (or other inferior food options heh) just to get our supposed daily allotment of iron? Maybe that is not the way it's supposed to be... Maybe we have to dig deeper to get to the truth of what we are supposed to eat and live here on this amazing planet. Noodles... Foods like that are just silly as the name sounds when you think of it.. why are there countries that are known for rice and noodles? Is it impossible for them to switch to something more natural and nourishing? Nah it's not.. it's just the corrupted misguided way the world went, for various reasons..



About fruit diet harming the teeth, the truth is that fruits, even the seemingly acidic ones, are very alkalizing, the resulting ash in the body from the fresh fruit is alkaline, whereas the acid ash end product of many other foods, especially cooked ones, is what you want to avoid. The reason that a fruit diet can damage teeth is because it is extremely cleansing and detoxifying. Imagine how much damaged or dying tissue the typical person has.. The body cannot regenerate it all, it has to get rid of some of it for its greater good, just as a rose bush benefits when its leaves are pruned... So when you eat a high fruit diet a lot of serious healing is going on and the body can't save all its damaged tissue, it has to sacrifice some so that it can regenerate or regrow anew. The teeth are unfortunately a more common casualty than other important tissue of the body, so that is where things will be most obvious. Some people experience hair falling out, and various skin ailments, but this is the body cleansing itself of what it doesn't need, and then it grows new healthy tissue and hair etc after it rids itself of the unneeded unnecessary energy expenditures. If you don't cut or tear off the dying or dead leaves of a rose bush or plant in general (I have rose bushes here lol so I was thinking of it while pruning them recently) then it won't have enough energy to devote to growing new flowers and leaves and fruits if that is the case. Because nature tries to save itself and others... but it has the innate wisdom to know that sometimes things are lost causes and it's better off using its energy and magic to make new things instead of holding onto dying or too far damaged ones.. Trees tell us a similar message too. So ideally if done properly, the teeth or other tissues may be casualties, but they'll grow back way stronger and healthier.

[hallow]

The only thing humans evolved better is our brain. If you really spent time in nature you would see we're far from the top of the food chain. Nature is very humbling. I spent a lot of time as a child on my grandparents farm. Nobody is stealing anything. The calves are well fed and the cows are often on there way to the barn to be milked before the farmers is. Cows actually like to be milked it reliving to them to have there milk taken .In this day in age it's to easy to think we're at the top. Another thing we forgot about nothing is defenseless. Maybe grapes and Olive's. I will always believe we're ment to eat a variety of foods. We're all raised on different diet's and prefer different life styles. To be honest if I eat to many fruits sweet or not I have bathroom issues. If I eat strictly one type of food over another my body simply doesn't like it. When it comes to food every"body" is different. It's amazing what a person can learn if they opens there mind.

[Sapphirez]

That's great you have had such an immersion in nature hallow, I've definitely come to appreciate it more and more as I progress.

that's cool the cows enjoy being milked, but having a baby recently I know that mothers make milk enough for the baby, supply and demand.. and babies are supposed to be the recipients. but nature does design it so the more milk that is milked the more milk is created so in that sense it seems ideal that humans can take milk from other species and the animals may appreciate the relationship, but at the same time, the milk is designed specifically for the species it's created for. As humans we can utilize almost anything, but the repercussions of what is too far deviated or deprived of nature intended for us is where the main problem comes.

hehe funny you mention grapes as being defenseless. I learned something interesting about them. You know resveratrol, one of the constituents from grapes that has been studied and become sort of a fad for a while? well if not it is an antioxidant, and what I learned is that peanuts also contain this. And what's more, peanuts are a prime prey for a mold or fungi called aflatoxin. besides peanuts being legumes which are problematic for humans, the aflatoxin is likely one of the reasons peanuts are an allergenic food for many. the resveratrol that is made in peanuts, and grapes, is actually a response to the aflatoxin (and maybe other things, that's about as far as my researching got lol).. So I think this relationship of antioxidants and 'free radicals' is a push and pull between plants trying to fend off and protect themselves from things that threaten or infest them.


anyway lol so in that sense grapes are not defenseless hehe they have resveratrol, and I imagine a lot of other ways to safeguard and heal themselves, as plants tend to do when we dig deeper and learn about that activity.


I like the idea of us eating a variety of things too, but unfortunately from what I've seen we really are just not designed to eat many things ideally. Our bodies are equipped to recover and deal with the unwanted or detrimental counterparts of the things we consume, but we're really at a state currently where most people simply cannot handle any more excess toxicity or deviation from our intended nature. But to comment more positively on the topic, I do think that each food or plant holds a different kind of consciousness and experience, and as humans it is in our favor to experience a variety of things. There is so much to experience, and create, in the world though so is it really necessary to put so much focus on food alone and can't we gain experiences and consciousness through other ways we consume and create? which we can do that more effectively when we are more pure, clean, and our bodies and beingness doesn't have to worry about dealing with an internal mess and expend so much energy detoxifying and reversing the damage that wreaks havoc on us on multiple levels. We also can appreciate things we thought were food in other ways with our senses of sight, sometimes touch and sound and so on. And of course feel a spiritual connection to them without having to chew them up and swallow them into our body.. just as we might with many of the other things on the Earth that humans know are not meant to be eaten. So just because certain societies said something is a food, doesn't necessarily mean it is.. In Asia eating dogs is a lot more common than many would think.. when I was becoming a vegetarian I exposed myself to videos of animal cruelty, typical farm stuff and all that but also I saw 'dog factories' where they keep them in cages and pile them up in trucks and other terrible things similar to how they treat farm animals here.. also snakes and different aquatic animals are abused and all sorts of other tragic realities exist where people somewhere consider something food, but to us obviously that doesn't make sense and seems beyond cruel.. so that is something to consider, just because some people think or said it was food, absolutely doesn't mean it is or that it is going to benefit us to eat it.


You probably have bathroom issues when eating fruit because your body knows it needs to cleanse itself out. Everybody is different, but every single human's body was designed to optimally eat fruit, that is just how it is whether we like it or not. It is how God made us for whatever reason, and if we open our minds we can see that fruit being the most evolved and appealing part of a plant hints that since we are the most evolved in certain ways that is the food made for us. It digests the quickest (as long as it's eaten respectfully and not with other foods or liquids that inhibit that) and is the most hydrating and cleansing usually with an abundance of chemistry that our bodies really love. It is about chemistry when it comes down to it..

[Gem]

Originally Posted by hallow

The only thing humans evolved better is our brain. If you really spent time in nature you would see we're far from the top of the food chain. Nature is very humbling. I spent a lot of time as a child on my grandparents farm. Nobody is stealing anything. The calves are well fed and the cows are often on there way to the barn to be milked before the farmers is. Cows actually like to be milked it reliving to them to have there milk taken .In this day in age it's to easy to think we're at the top. Another thing we forgot about nothing is defenseless. Maybe grapes and Olive's. I will always believe we're ment to eat a variety of foods. We're all raised on different diet's and prefer different life styles. To be honest if I eat to many fruits sweet or not I have bathroom issues. If I eat strictly one type of food over another my body simply doesn't like it. When it comes to food every"body" is different. It's amazing what a person can learn if they opens there mind.

True, we usually discuss things with people so we can individualise their ways of eating to best suit their lifestyle. People who have one special 'human diet' don't seem to understand, and really, base it on fallacy such as appeals to nature. By 'natural' people tend to mean pre-agricultural, which was most certainly an omnivorous diet utilising the resources of a given environment, but then we invent the Paleo Diet as an appeal to that, which like all ways of eating that have benefits, eliminates highly processed food and replaces it with whole food alternatives. When people say a vegan diet, that is a way of eating in modernity and is not possible in undeveloped societies. I grew up in Papua New Guinea where much of the population 'live off the land', and you'd imagine fruit in abundance all year round, but in fact it isn't like that, and abundance comes from having a very wide variety of edibles, including root crops such as sweet potato, tapioca, taro along with 'cooking bananas' as starchy staples and extensive gardens that produce all sorts of things, and some hunting and foraging. The fantasy is not the same as the reality and people who appeal to nature need to go live in the jungles, the deserts and the island atolls to see how to subsist.

People where I lived eat mostly veges. Islanders and coastal people eat a lot of sea food, the mountain people hunt and raise pigs, but the basis of the diets are starch as staples and a wide range of veges along with meat, but meat is not daily fare. To imitate that is not a bad way to go, but all it really is is a lack of highly processed junk and a lot of nutrient dense fresh food.

[hallow]

Originally Posted by Sapphirez

That's great you have had such an immersion in nature hallow, I've definitely come to appreciate it more and more as I progress.

that's cool the cows enjoy being milked, but having a baby recently I know that mothers make milk enough for the baby, supply and demand.. and babies are supposed to be the recipients. but nature does design it so the more milk that is milked the more milk is created so in that sense it seems ideal that humans can take milk from other species and the animals may appreciate the relationship, but at the same time, the milk is designed specifically for the species it's created for. As humans we can utilize almost anything, but the repercussions of what is too far deviated or deprived of nature intended for us is where the main problem comes.

hehe funny you mention grapes as being defenseless. I learned something interesting about them. You know resveratrol, one of the constituents from grapes that has been studied and become sort of a fad for a while? well if not it is an antioxidant, and what I learned is that peanuts also contain this. And what's more, peanuts are a prime prey for a mold or fungi called aflatoxin. besides peanuts being legumes which are problematic for humans, the aflatoxin is likely one of the reasons peanuts are an allergenic food for many. the resveratrol that is made in peanuts, and grapes, is actually a response to the aflatoxin (and maybe other things, that's about as far as my researching got lol).. So I think this relationship of antioxidants and 'free radicals' is a push and pull between plants trying to fend off and protect themselves from things that threaten or infest them.


anyway lol so in that sense grapes are not defenseless hehe they have resveratrol, and I imagine a lot of other ways to safeguard and heal themselves, as plants tend to do when we dig deeper and learn about that activity.


I like the idea of us eating a variety of things too, but unfortunately from what I've seen we really are just not designed to eat many things ideally. Our bodies are equipped to recover and deal with the unwanted or detrimental counterparts of the things we consume, but we're really at a state currently where most people simply cannot handle any more excess toxicity or deviation from our intended nature. But to comment more positively on the topic, I do think that each food or plant holds a different kind of consciousness and experience, and as humans it is in our favor to experience a variety of things. There is so much to experience, and create, in the world though so is it really necessary to put so much focus on food alone and can't we gain experiences and consciousness through other ways we consume and create? which we can do that more effectively when we are more pure, clean, and our bodies and beingness doesn't have to worry about dealing with an internal mess and expend so much energy detoxifying and reversing the damage that wreaks havoc on us on multiple levels. We also can appreciate things we thought were food in other ways with our senses of sight, sometimes touch and sound and so on. And of course feel a spiritual connection to them without having to chew them up and swallow them into our body.. just as we might with many of the other things on the Earth that humans know are not meant to be eaten. So just because certain societies said something is a food, doesn't necessarily mean it is.. In Asia eating dogs is a lot more common than many would think.. when I was becoming a vegetarian I exposed myself to videos of animal cruelty, typical farm stuff and all that but also I saw 'dog factories' where they keep them in cages and pile them up in trucks and other terrible things similar to how they treat farm animals here.. also snakes and different aquatic animals are abused and all sorts of other tragic realities exist where people somewhere consider something food, but to us obviously that doesn't make sense and seems beyond cruel.. so that is something to consider, just because some people think or said it was food, absolutely doesn't mean it is or that it is going to benefit us to eat it.


You probably have bathroom issues when eating fruit because your body knows it needs to cleanse itself out. Everybody is different, but every single human's body was designed to optimally eat fruit, that is just how it is whether we like it or not. It is how God made us for whatever reason, and if we open our minds we can see that fruit being the most evolved and appealing part of a plant hints that since we are the most evolved in certain ways that is the food made for us. It digests the quickest (as long as it's eaten respectfully and not with other foods or liquids that inhibit that) and is the most hydrating and cleansing usually with an abundance of chemistry that our bodies really love. It is about chemistry when it comes down to it..

at this point in human extistance very few things are what nature made anymore. corn is a good example nature made it a simple grass. Over time and selective breeding human created what we know as corn.
I agree there's poor farming practices. Knowing where your food comes from and how raised is a good solution. The farmer is going to do what makes them money.
Good info on the grapes and peanuts, and with my bathroom issues with eating fruit. Your probably right. you gave me a lot of things to think about.I love plants. My house looks like a jungle. A lot of the plants I have defend themselves extremely well. One I have comes to mind is nicknamed "the sheep eater" it's adapted to live in poor Rocky dry soil. What it does is traps larger animals in it's thorny leaves like barbed wire. In time the animal dies and decomposes witch in turn fertilize the plan and gives it fluids. Nature's a crazy place! I attached a picture of the plant. This one is only a baby.

[hallow]

Originally Posted by Gem

True, we usually discuss things with people so we can individualise their ways of eating to best suit their lifestyle. People who have one special 'human diet' don't seem to understand, and really, base it on fallacy such as appeals to nature. By 'natural' people tend to mean pre-agricultural, which was most certainly an omnivorous diet utilising the resources of a given environment, but then we invent the Paleo Diet as an appeal to that, which like all ways of eating that have benefits, eliminates highly processed food and replaces it with whole food alternatives. When people say a vegan diet, that is a way of eating in modernity and is not possible in undeveloped societies. I grew up in Papua New Guinea where much of the population 'live off the land', and you'd imagine fruit in abundance all year round, but in fact it isn't like that, and abundance comes from having a very wide variety of edibles, including root crops such as sweet potato, tapioca, taro along with 'cooking bananas' as starchy staples and extensive gardens that produce all sorts of things, and some hunting and foraging. The fantasy is not the same as the reality and people who appeal to nature need to go live in the jungles, the deserts and the island atolls to see how to subsist.

People where I lived eat mostly veges. Islanders and coastal people eat a lot of sea food, the mountain people hunt and raise pigs, but the basis of the diets are starch as staples and a wide range of veges along with meat, but meat is not daily fare. To imitate that is not a bad way to go, but all it really is is a lack of highly processed junk and a lot of nutrient dense fresh food.

I would love be able to eat fresh fruits and vegetables all year round. I always wondered what a fresh cut pineapple or banna would taste like. Where I live quality fresh fruits and vegetables are only around a few months of the year. And then the choices are limited. The growing season here is only 180 day. It really depends on where you live on a person's diet as well. I live on lake Michigan. It's a very large lake and I eat a lot of fish. Also there's a lot of dairy farms with milk and meat. But the environment doesn't allow for a lot of fruits to be grown. Fruit and vegetables in stores are often of low quality and more expensive. This time of year is especially bad for fruits and vegetables because everything here has been sitting in storage since September.