Is karma only part of duality? Or a Universal Law?

[Unseeking Seeker]

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@ sea-dove ... the beautiful and noteworthy point of your story is that you emoted love as a default reflex.

Ultimately, all conflicts must be resolved by love alone ... by unconditional forgiveness & acceptance

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[NoOne]

Hi Miss Hepburn,

This is an excellent question and this is what I can say about it from personal experience:

Karma is actually psycho-energetic muck that builds up in the subtle body of a person, which gets carried over from one life to the next.

When one experiences an awakening and the serpent of fire rises from its slumber, it burns away the fruits of karma on the tree of life, which is the human body's energetic system. As the serpent rises from one centre to the next, memories, suppressed emotions and hangups that are lodged in that particular energetic centre re-emerge and one must learn to process them, deal with them and let go. There is felt relief as the fruit of karma is let go of and the energy can move up to a higher centre.

In the end all attachments, which are mostly a result of Karma are burnt away and only then, once the fiery serpent breaks through to heaven (which is to be found above the seventh chakra, above the head, hence the heaven is above imagery), and Shakti can finally reunify with Shiva, Oneness is experienced in a burst of light and energy, which we call enlightenment.

I may have simplified it for brevity's sake, but that's the gist of it.

[Altair]

How is it a universal law? If karma exists than there is no way to escape it for any living creature. What would the karma be of yersinia pestis, all those ''souls'' living as nasty bacteria that killed millions of people? What about the spider that snares bugs and other insects in its web?

It's more likely the humans project their sense of right and wrong, and ''actions carry over to another body through reincarnation'' upon all living things. If you look at it from a non-human perspective then there is nothing to learn and no sense of right and wrong in slowly suffocating a prey or wiping out an entire population. Maybe the 'heavens' will drink a beer in equal fun with Hitler as they do with Buddha, and while that may be a frightening thought it could possibly be no less bizarre than suggesting there's cosmic judgement, imo.

[Busby]

Originally Posted by Altair

How is it a universal law? If karma exists than there is no way to escape it for any living creature. What would the karma be of yersinia pestis, all those ''souls'' living as nasty bacteria that killed millions of people? What about the spider that snares bugs and other insects in its web?

It's more likely the humans project their sense of right and wrong, and ''actions carry over to another body through reincarnation'' upon all living things. If you look at it from a non-human perspective then there is nothing to learn and no sense of right and wrong in slowly suffocating a prey or wiping out an entire population. Maybe the 'heavens' will drink a beer in equal fun with Hitler as they do with Buddha, and while that may be a frightening thought it could possibly be no less bizarre than suggesting there's cosmic judgement, imo.

It seems to me that you confirm my own ponderings about karma. I don't wish to presume or blatantly concur but right at the end of all possible arguments about the existence of something called karma we find that we do have to include everything. As above.
Surely all organic and non-organic matter has to be included to get a complete picture of the workings of the universe; mountains do crumble - and there and everywhere else for me universal laws come into play.

I doubt very much if the universe cares a fig about goodies and baddies.

Your Hitler and Buddha picture sums up nicely our concern when we busy ourselves with rewards and punishments. We need to throw out a lot of bathwaters and the babies in those waters need to go too.

The concept of karma although constantly being redefined is admirable but can basically only be kept going if the theory of (to keep it easy) God and Satan is somehow interwoven. Morals and ethics - for me morals are directly to do with the conception of good and bad and ethics to do with basic understandings lead unfortunately and basically to us refusing to see the maybe harsh realities of the universe.
Personally and in recent times I have dropped any arguments for a thing called karma functioning in the background, I suppose because I fail to see its workings in normal life. It may be pointless to say this but having led a full and happy life I find it impossible to suggest either to my neighbour or to myself that this is because of my past actions.
The universe and its workings - all those microbes and nasty spiders - exist because of the total accumulated workings of well - everything. Each one of us has at least one of the atoms which inhabited Napoleon's body and we breathe some of the air he had in his lungs.
Without continuing I'd just like to say that the universe really is intelligent but has as yet not got round to wearing clean underpants and wanting everything to be what we understand as good.

Maybe we humans, wherever we may be, are the first step in an evolutionary process fumbling to find its feet.

[zorkchop]

inavalan . . .

You do not need to point fingers . . . what you say applies to all.

Everyone learns the Letter of the Law ( the written word ) and juggles them until they learn the Spirit of the Law ( How and Why it fits into the Whole of LIFE ). That’s the nature of learning. People plug in beliefs and test them out . . . through the passage of time . . . from weeks to months to years to decades to lifetimes . . . and they will believe until they *know* . . . as proved through personal testing and personal experience. As the old saying goes . . . one believes until you know . . . and yes . . . one can believe they know . . . hence . . . on goes the Path through the lifetimes.

If one wishes to question personal experience . . . then one makes their Path even more adventuresome indeed. Who else is going to test their own individual and personal beliefs . . . until they know?

On top of it all . . . very few people have the capacity to discern between someone using various ideas and concepts as their own . . . to someone who HAS indeed tested them and found their worth and Truth. Few people even take the time to try and discern.

And in this day and age when there is SO much mis-information and personal tweaks . . . it all becomes that much more difficult.

Many times . . . it is those very people we wish to dismiss that offers the greater Truths. This certainly is not *always* true. The human experience resents change . . . and with lack of discernment . . . where and how is one to turn?

I will tell you this . . . and I mean this most sincerely . . . if you have a better way . . . please offer it here . . . and if it works . . . and you can get your viewpoint into a book . . . you will make an absolute fortune. All of mankind would rejoice.

Until then . . . on we go.

[Miss Hepburn]

Wow, thanks for the input - too many now to comment on.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Altair

How is it a universal law? If karma exists than there is no way to escape it for any living creature. What would the karma be of yersinia pestis, all those ''souls'' living as nasty bacteria that killed millions of people? What about the spider that snares bugs and other insects in its web?

It's more likely the humans project their sense of right and wrong, and ''actions carry over to another body through reincarnation'' upon all living things. If you look at it from a non-human perspective then there is nothing to learn and no sense of right and wrong in slowly suffocating a prey or wiping out an entire population. Maybe the 'heavens' will drink a beer in equal fun with Hitler as they do with Buddha, and while that may be a frightening thought it could possibly be no less bizarre than suggesting there's cosmic judgement, imo.

You have a knack for asking good questions

Karma implies thinking.

Bacteria have very rudimentary thinking. It is just barely on the first quarter of the thinking yardstick: instincts-emotions-intellect-intuition.

Karma has nothing to do with right and wrong. Anyway, right and wrong are relative only to one's level of evolvement.

"Death" is just a more definitive change of focus of awareness of your inner-self, similarly to waking up from a dream. Reincarnation is the inner-self's reincarnation, not the reincarnation of an outer-self.

You're correct: there's no cosmic judgement.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by zorkchop

...
Many times . . . it is those very people we wish to dismiss that offers the greater Truths.
...

Nope. Not even rarely.

[zorkchop]

Firmly stated, Inavalan.

A most self-revealing testimony.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by zorkchop

Firmly stated, Inavalan.

A most self-revealing testimony.

Passive-aggressive ... Amusing, but keep it to yourself.