!All Beings Have An Agenda!

Originally Posted by Meadows

For me personally, I would simply want your writing to be shorter. It is positive that you realise that you cannot lead people (many don't). And I appreciate that you like the yoda speak and this is why you choose to express yourself this way.

Being straightforwardly honest (as I speak), there are holes in some of the theories you speak about. So I believe that the essence of what you say does come from that deep connection we have. But you fill in the gaps with the mind and logic etc. So always, whatever you write has work to be done to distill it - then the posts might become shorter - not for me - but because hopefully you will simplify what you feel from 'source'.

When people speak as teachers (which is the role you put yourself in speaking as you do), I do test that to see what ego is hiding behind it. I've looked at many of your posts and never felt the need. But speaking of self honesty, for me, requires a person to share some to exemplify it. This you have done without the angry ego that has lay behind the wannabe teachers that have gone before you.

You are young and I'm old I think, so thank you and I wish you well on your journey of discovery x

To a large degree, your wanting my writing to be shorter stems from your ego's desire for control. The "holes" you perceive are of your own imagination. If you are aware enough, you can actually perceive vast amounts of information that exist in the so-called gaps or spaces between things.

As for "teachers," to teach is to demonstrate, and everyone demonstrates their beliefs in their actions, since all actions stem from beliefs. All beings are, in this sense, "teachers." You are basing many of your observations on a very narrow view. I do offer short-message threads that I post on this website (sometimes in other categories other than "Spiritual Development"). Take a look, if you care to. You are simply basing your opinion without deeply investigating, barely even LOOKING. Broaden your perspective, and thus be not so quick to come to such conclusions. Your quest of "testing others" is ego nonsense. You are actually testing yourself for your own responses. Realize this.

Again, I shall return my focus more to the subject I intended. Thank you for your interest. Bye, my friend.

I was only joking re the shorter writing...hence the face.

As for the rest, it seems you don't approve of the idea that there might be some holes in your understanding. There are in everybody's, without exception.

Having given such a balanced response the first time, you've gone for the tit for tat reaction this time. And that's all I wanted, just to see how you would respond.

I am wary of people who are depersonalised. That's the only reason I test things out. It helps me to find the person that is there. It's the investigating that you are claiming I don't do, actually being put into action, ironically.

Apologies for this late edit - but regarding the subject of the thread; I agree that there is an inner agenda that self-honesty brings into clarity. But I came back to this post, because I noticed that I shared my agenda here. I write quite freely with self-honesty and awareness of what I'm doing. I don't pay myself due respect sometimes.

[blackraven]

Sourcerer – I feel every person more often than not works their own agenda or at least their agenda drives their behavior. This to me is what makes some interaction between people not genuine because each side has his or her own agenda to which they desire an outcome. Not always, of course, but in negotiation and even coercion it’s obvious what is going on. Quite often in the work environment each employee or department seeks to have their agenda come to fruition so when dealing with other employees they interact using specific methodology. Government bodies are always working their own agenda and thus the reason check and balance bodies can’t ever agree such as the U.S. Congress and the President. Of course the consequence is laws are not made to benefit the country. Personal agendas make me a bit suspicious of other’s motives, especially when I feel I’m being manipulated, mislead or lied to.

Blackraven

[Mr Interesting]

Within meditation I have been practising non desire though it might be called something else. When I first became able to quiet the mind for relatively long periods I did notice the underlying intentive response... I could feel it underneath, a kind of actioning consciousness, but recently I've been able to sit within a non actioning that somehow sits above the intention and it's still somewhat difficult to stay within.

So while I agree that it's not above most to state they are desireless it's quite possibly another thing altogether for it to be an actual truth... but it is a necessary part of the process which leads to finer and finer degrees of action being dropped, or risen above, and this by degrees redefines the concept of action within coarser consciousness.

The word agenda, in certain contexts does have negative connotations related to the 'hidden agenda' of manipulation and grooming. But what if sourcerer had used the term purpose or motivation.

Would people find it easier to accept that action has purpose to motivate it?

I am writing this with the purpose of putting my contemplation down. I have found in the past that it helps the clarity of contemplation to find the words for it. It also enables me to sleep on it without my mind holding onto it, as it is written down for when I want to return. So, this is my motivation.

I see no reason why everyone would need to be aware of their inner purpose and motivations. But self-awareness is something that is part of me, and I feel that to do something with the purpose of getting rid of purpose, would simply block it out. For me, it seems healthy to be aware and to be able to make others aware of what my motivations are.

Originally Posted by blackraven

Sourcerer – I feel every person more often than not works their own agenda or at least their agenda drives their behavior. This to me is what makes some interaction between people not genuine because each side has his or her own agenda to which they desire an outcome. Not always, of course, but in negotiation and even coercion it’s obvious what is going on. Quite often in the work environment each employee or department seeks to have their agenda come to fruition so when dealing with other employees they interact using specific methodology. Government bodies are always working their own agenda and thus the reason check and balance bodies can’t ever agree such as the U.S. Congress and the President. Of course the consequence is laws are not made to benefit the country. Personal agendas make me a bit suspicious of other’s motives, especially when I feel I’m being manipulated, mislead or lied to.

Blackraven

Hello my friend. Personal agendas are merely something that all persons have, quite obviously and quite simply. It is no mystery, and it is not anything that one needs to be "suspicious" about, in the general sense that someone has a personal agenda. The point of the essay is simply that EVERYONE has a personal agenda (even newborn babies). It is not a matter of "if" or "some people" having one, in other words. Actually, a person carries many personal agendas, for each "subconscious" belief in itself IS an agenda, a plan of action. This has nothing to do with "political agendas" nor with anything of a specific nature like that, but rather with a very general, broad, Higher-Self understanding of what an "agenda" simply is, without complication and confusion. It is about getting to the heart, the root core of beliefs themselves, in a meditative, metaphysical sense.

However, yes, feeling suspicious of another's agenda (even mine) can be a very healthy thing, if done so with compassionate curiosity rather than with fear and attack. Indeed, always be open to question things--but remember that our job is not really to question the intents of "others"--but rather it is a matter of SELF-ENQUIRY, you see, if this makes sense to you. Most humans have an attitude of questioning the "outside" world that they see (as if there were really such a thing, yet there isn't, for the "objective world" is a subjective projection of the mind). I suggest that people question their own motives, their own beliefs/attitudes, their own consciousness. I have often done this myself, and still do it--for the Higher Self keeps things in check--which is why I am sharing this practice with others...

Yes, my friend, ALL behavior is indeed motivated through one's personal agendas (beliefs). Not just some behavior, or most behavior. (No matter if it is motivated predominantly through love or through fear, and even if it is in alignment with Source.) All behavior, without exception. Very simple.

Originally Posted by Meadows

I was only joking re the shorter writing...hence the face.

As for the rest, it seems you don't approve of the idea that there might be some holes in your understanding. There are in everybody's, without exception.

Having given such a balanced response the first time, you've gone for the tit for tat reaction this time. And that's all I wanted, just to see how you would respond.

I am wary of people who are depersonalised. That's the only reason I test things out. It helps me to find the person that is there. It's the investigating that you are claiming I don't do, actually being put into action, ironically.

Apologies for this late edit - but regarding the subject of the thread; I agree that there is an inner agenda that self-honesty brings into clarity. But I came back to this post, because I noticed that I shared my agenda here. I write quite freely with self-honesty and awareness of what I'm doing. I don't pay myself due respect sometimes.

Yes, my friend. There are indeed "holes" to be perceived in anything that appears in terms of duality and separation. Yes, of course there are holes in this sense. But such a perception of "holes" is often one that largely stems from a belief that the thing that is perceived to be hole-y is not a perfect reflection of the mind that created it. My point is simply that all "holes" to be seen are those that are perceived, imagined. Myself, when I point out apparent "lacks" in anything, it is not done so in a sense that lack is real, but only to remind that there is often something essential that is being overlooked, not clearly seen. Lack is never truly REAL; it is only imagined to be so.

In this sense, understanding this, one can perceive and sense the great beauty in oneself/others/all-of-creation, even when offering a teaching (a demonstration) in which apparent "lacks" are pointed out. I AM highly aware that the lack I perceive is imaginary. My own mind manifests what "Sourcerer" sees. This is why I operate from a core understanding that all is perfect just as it is ("perfect" here meaning that there are no mistakes at all in creation). I very often remind people in a number of the threads I began that all words are opinion, and that my words are but opinion, which is a personal interpretation. This is the same as admitting "holes" in my personal understanding. This is an example of what I meant when I suggested to you not to be so quick to come to such conclusions, without first investigating deeper. Speaking in a broad, general sense, ALL back-and-forth conversations are "tit-for-tat." Yes. You are titting-for-tatting as much as anyone else here. It's all good.

The "only reason I test things out" is not really the reason that you stated. Go deeper. Actually, the only reason why anyone chooses ANYTHING is because they believe that they will personally benefit from the choosing of it. All choices are made from an inner understanding--a core desire--for LOVE. Of course, not realizing this, this is how one may "unconsciously" distort this understanding, so to speak, and make a choice that appears to be distanced from love. Yet the spiritual fact remains that love is at the core of all intentions, as the Inner Essence, metaphorically speaking. Understanding this, you may then be more honest with yourself and see that ALL your choices (and everyone's choices) are really because you inherently on a Higher Self level want to give and receive love.

The word agenda of the title is what caught my attention, too. Just from a glance and I'm thinking what's with the use of the word agenda - which sounds so conspiratorial.
The word I would expect to see is the commonly used Purpose.
I'd prefer to use other words especially if what I'm getting into has anything to do with me. But that's just me.
Nevertheless, all good points taken, Soucerer.

Originally Posted by Niebla0007

The word agenda of the title is what caught my attention, too. Just from a glance and I'm thinking what's with the use of the word agenda - which sounds so conspiratorial.
The word I would expect to see is the commonly used Purpose.
I'd prefer to use other words especially if what I'm getting into has anything to do with me. But that's just me.
Nevertheless, all good points taken, Soucerer.

Ah, thanks my friend. Actually it only sounds "conspiratorial" in that sense to those who make such an assumption. It is not inherently so, and you know this. Remember, no *thing* in itself inherently has meaning; but rather, WE give things personal meaning. You CHOSE to see it as conspiratorial--that is, if that is how you reacted. This is simple "law of attraction" at work, you see.

Sourcerer is usually not one to give people "I would expect." I chose the word "agenda" as I am pointing to the root at what an agenda essentially is, which is a belief, a mental program, and ALL MINDS have them, period. It is all so simple. Yet people generally often do like to complicate things, usually not even realizing so.

All of creation is a "conspiracy" within Universal Mind.

No, I didn't take it the conspiratorial way.
I actually find this amusing how the simple word agenda which I thought sounds conspiratorial led me to think of the Spiritual Forum's Rules/Conspiracy Theories.
But of course, I had an idea what the thread is really all about even before reading it.