I thought this was beautiful;

[Ziusudra]

Do You Love Me?

A lover asked his beloved,
Do you love yourself more
than you love me?

The beloved replied,
I have died to myself
and I live for you.

I've disappeared from myself
and my attributes,
I am present only for you.

I have forgotten all my learnings,
but from knowing you
I have become a scholar.

I have lost all my strength,
but from your power
I am able.

If I love myself
I love you.
If I love you
I love myself.

~~ by Rumi

[TheMotherKnowsAll]

Z, That sounds so sad. I want to tell that person that everything is going to be ok and that they shouldn't feel like the are subsumed or need to be, just to be in a great love. Isn't the idea of a soul mate to be two halves of a whole? One doesn't get absorbed into the other. I think it is important to stay yourself always, no matter how connected or bound you are to someone. But - I do admit that when I was younger, I was all about changing myself and becoming a part of who and what I loved. In that, the person loves the reflection you make of them, not the real you. I lost myself, buried myself under others, many times and had to find my way back.

Today I was leafing through the book between classes and I came on this one. It almost jumped out at me:

“People want you to be happy.
Don't keep serving them your pain!

If you could untie your wings
and free your soul of jealousy,

you and everyone around you
would fly up like doves.”
― Rumi

It felt so joyful. Thinking about letting go of the pain of the past, freeing your soul, and flying like a dove. This held special meaning for me, because whenever I see a dove (we have wood doves and mourning doves around here), I feel like it is a sign from my mother, or the mother, and I feel like the world is giving me a hug. So, for today I concentrated on that.

[TheMotherKnowsAll]

“Yesterday I was clever, so I wanted to change the world.
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself.”

-Rumi

[Ziusudra]

Originally Posted by TheMotherKnowsAll

Z, That sounds so sad. I want to tell that person that everything is going to be ok and that they shouldn't feel like the are subsumed or need to be, just to be in a great love. Isn't the idea of a soul mate to be two halves of a whole? One doesn't get absorbed into the other. I think it is important to stay yourself always, no matter how connected or bound you are to someone. But - I do admit that when I was younger, I was all about changing myself and becoming a part of who and what I loved. In that, the person loves the reflection you make of them, not the real you. I lost myself, buried myself under others, many times and had to find my way back.
.

Yes, if we apply Rumi's verses into an ordinary romantic date/coupling/marriage, I agree that particular verses are outdated and down right sad.

However, Rumi's verses are about his relationship/connection with his God.
Because his verses are so much about love, most of us apply them to our modern day romantic relationships.

I interpret that particular verse as God asking Rumi if his spiritual devotion is true. And Rumi expressing all of his love to his God.... Expressing that he is nothing w/o his God and that everything about him is due to his God... including his self love.

It is kind of like Christian God instructing Abraham to sacrifice his only son Issac as a test of his devotion to his God. - Genesis 22:1-19. Abraham followings his God's order. God is satisfied with Abraham's devotion and stops Abraham from actually sacrificing Issac.

How does such devotion and sacrifice apply to twin flame relationship or any strong soul connections?

It really depends on each connection, as each soul connection is unique. Some of these connections are predestined with great sacrifices.

I don't see these sacrifices as a subsumed but as an expression of unconditional love..
As a mother giving a birth to a child even at the risk of her life,
Or like.. any parent sacrificing his/her life for their child.
Or a lover ends up dying while trying to protect his/her beloved.
Or one simply helping the other to achieve their greater joint mission while forgoing separate lesser individual goals.

The sadness and hurt feeling are human emotions, not the designs of our souls.
What we as humans consider sacrifice is really just duty/destiny of our soul journey.

[Ziusudra]

My Beloved

Know that my beloved is hidden from everyone
Know that she is beyond the belief of all beliefs
Know that in my heart she is an clear as the moon
Know that she is the life in my body and in my soul

~~~ by Rumi

Now, this true for love in spiritual sense.

[JosephineB]

This is from Rumi Whispers of the Beloved poetry book. In the back it has Terms & Symbolism:

Beloved, Friend, Lover, King - God in His loving aspect

The lover - The Sufi in search of the Beloved

Burning - The process of purification of the soul

Drunk, drunkenness - Intoxication with the love of God

Reed - Longing for return to the source

Killing - Breaking one's attachment to the ego

Nightengale - Symbol of ther soul's longing

Rose - Symbol of the beauty of the beloved

Rose-garden - Paradise and eternal beauty

Wine - Symbol of the ecstacy of the love of God

[TheMotherKnowsAll]

Originally Posted by JosephineBloggs

This is from Rumi Whispers of the Beloved poetry book. In the back it has Terms & Symbolism:

Beloved, Friend, Lover, King - God in His loving aspect

The lover - The Sufi in search of the Beloved

Burning - The process of purification of the soul

Drunk, drunkenness - Intoxication with the love of God

Reed - Longing for return to the source

Killing - Breaking one's attachment to the ego

Nightengale - Symbol of ther soul's longing

Rose - Symbol of the beauty of the beloved

Rose-garden - Paradise and eternal beauty

Wine - Symbol of the ecstacy of the love of God

Josephine, Awesome! I have never seen this before. This is very helpful in looking at the poems. They sound like basic love poems to a soul mate, until you read deeper using his actual meaning. Thank you for taking the time to post that!

[TheMotherKnowsAll]

Zuisudra and Josephine,
Now I have to go back and read everything again with this new knowledge!

[Ziusudra]

Originally Posted by TheMotherKnowsAll

Zuisudra and Josephine,
Now I have to go back and read everything again with this new knowledge!

Hee hee hee
Are you disappointed that Rumi was not pinning about a woman?

When I first encountered Rumi's poems many years ago, I thought "Wow, who is this woman that he was so much in love with? Did he ever have his happy ending with this woman?"

So, I researched his life.
Then I found out that he entire life was devoted to spiritual journey in ancient Muslim world and his spiritualism was based specifically on Sufism.
All of his writings are about spiritualism, not about romantic love.
I was a bit disappointed that there was not a fairy tail.

Nonetheless, love is love.
It is an universal language.
So, his passionate love poems about his God can apply to any passionate love, including a romantic love between two humans.

[TheMotherKnowsAll]

No, Zuisudra, I am not disappointed. I had been wondering if it was his image of his better or best self. Life, maybe that is what his twin was, his perfected self, after earning, contemplation, meditation, etc. Lol, but then, I have been working very long hours lately, lots of my thoughts aren't very clear, even to me.