Heaven or Reincarnation?

"Is it a matter of our choice?" Having further earth lives is indeed a matter of choice. We weren't forced to come here in the first place and we won't be forced to return....

But to say we can choose to come back as something specific (as one contributor suggests) is one more fanciful notion.

[Colhad75]

Originally Posted by mac

"Is it a matter of our choice?" Having further earth lives is indeed a matter of choice. We weren't forced to come here in the first place and we won't be forced to return....

But to say we can choose to come back as something specific (as one contributor suggests) is one more fanciful notion.

We have free will, we can do what we like.

Originally Posted by Colhad75

We have free will, we can do what we like.

Free will does not mean the freedom just to become whatever one chooses, only the freedom to work towards it.... It's not a licence to do or to be whatever one chooses. And because we each have freewill, one's personal freewill may not constrain the freewill of anyone else. If it were otherwise, the right to freewill for another might have been denied, negating the original law.

If it were literally a case of, quote: "....we can do what we like" then we'd be able to do, or to be, things which would negate the law of cause and effect. We could choose to be a brilliant musician without ever having learned music or how to play, an effect without a cause.

nonsense

Your beliefs weigh a lot into it. There are vastly varying accounts of NDEs of people of different religions, and though they all have common elements, the person experiencing them sometimes specifically encounters an entity from their religious belief (Jesus, Allah, etc..)

So that leads to the questions - which is the right religion? If these people are all seeing first hand Jesus, Allah, Vishnu, whatever, then are no incorrect religions, right? What is the reason for the vastly varying accounts of NDEs?

The answer seems to be that heaven is partly what we expect, and partly what we 'need' (to learn), as someone on this forum put it. And from there, we can infer that our idea of Heaven, is not the final phase of our spiritual journey.. rather, it will be another 'simulated' learning experience, tailored towards our beliefs on Earth. I would guess that the next step beyond this Heaven, would be the first 'true' realm, where we will be completely detached from our persona that we experienced on Earth, and where we make the choice of reincarnation and whatnot.

[Fresco]

Here's an indigo kid describing OBE's, NDE's and astral projection:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqVV2u_1ADA

This kid is only 20 years old and yet he's probably one of the smartest and wisest people on earth. Check out some of his other videos:

http://www.youtube.com/user/jordandu.../9/vybaO0bYM0U

http://www.youtube.com/user/jordandu.../5/I7GJ-8SY068

http://www.youtube.com/user/jordandu.../7/9TCmvrvwbRs

http://www.youtube.com/user/jordandu.../3/buQzRtkAMN8

And many more: http://www.youtube.com/user/jordandu...48/PDMzvJOu9vQ

http://thespiritscience.net/spirit/

[Song]

Perhaps our memories of past incarnations, and of being spirits on the Otherside, are buried so that we will focus on the task at hand, meaning our current life. If I was born fully aware that the "real me" is a spirit from another realm, complete with vivid memories of that other realm, and that I've experienced many previous incarnations, some okay, some horrible, I might not take this present life all that seriously, especially when the going gets tough. I might be much more likely to just say "why am I putting up with this nonsense anyway?" and throw in the towel, so to speak, and move on -- either back to the spirit realm, or on to the next incarnation, in hopes that it'll be a better one.

[Fresco]

Originally Posted by Song

Perhaps our memories of past incarnations, and of being spirits on the Otherside, are buried so that we will focus on the task at hand, meaning our current life. If I was born fully aware that the "real me" is a spirit from another realm, complete with vivid memories of that other realm, and that I've experienced many previous incarnations, some okay, some horrible, I might not take this present life all that seriously, especially when the going gets tough. I might be much more likely to just say "why am I putting up with this nonsense anyway?" and throw in the towel, so to speak, and move on -- either back to the spirit realm, or on to the next incarnation, in hopes that it'll be a better one

Yup, exactly.

And I think for that same reason people are born with a natural fear of death. Because if we werent, and we knew life was pretty good on the other side, the vast majority of depressed or suicidal people would just say f__ck it and put a gun to their head.

People that are into astral projection, or that have seen the "other side" tend to be fairly emotionally balanced. Its almost as if they were ready to receive their gift and not abuse it

I've always found it very difficult to get my head around the concept of reincarnation. It makes no sense to me at all. A life of which you have no memory, a completely different identity and, I assume, personality. If I was a different person in another life then I wasn't me at all. I find it baffling.

I think any memories that people do have of a "past life" are thoughts planted by spirits. It is said that everyone is born with some kind of psychic ability and perhaps memories of past lives are memories given to you from the spirit world so that you have some understanding of the world as it was when they were alive. A kind of history lesson from the other side of life.

"A life of which you have no memory, a completely different identity and, I assume, personality. If I was a different person in another life then I wasn't me at all. I find it baffling."

Life and reincarnation could be seen something like the following.

Think of yourself - the 'real you' - as an actor who has parts in unscripted plays. A role always begins as a young person usually changing to that of an adult and eventually an old person - no make up is necessary throughout!

There are many other actors, various locations. It's improvisational, no set parts, nothing to tell you what it's about. You appear to have a free hand. Eventually your part is over and you step off-stage. Later - now out of character - you can review how you played your role, how well you did. Production staff can be called on to help you with your review. You might decide you'd like to try another play, have a different role, try for different outcomes, give a 'better performance'. (Or you may decide you don't need any more stage experience because you're satisfied with what you achieved.)

The 'real you' is that actor, becoming ever more experienced from roles in other productions. Sometimes you'll be able to use that experience but in other roles you won't have the chance. But the actor is always the same individual. You'll wear different clothes (your body) play different roles alongside different actors on different stages. (a new person in a different life) but you are still you no matter what role, what performance, what outcome.

That's an awfully crude analogy but kinda covers the essence of multiple lives.

That's an interesting analogy Mac and it gives me food for thought.

So, would I be right in thinking that, when I reach the spirit world again, I will remember these past lives?

I still struggle with the concept and I look forward to discovering the truth about reincarnation one day. All I will say is that I hope we have the option to remain in the spirit world without it being compulsary to come back to earth. Once is enough for me!