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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Science & Spirituality

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  #41  
Old 12-01-2019, 03:08 PM
handy guy handy guy is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 80
 
that is a very big puzzle Andrew, perhaps if you concentrate on just one small corner of it for awhile as in giving yourself a break?

So what do you think about or have you studied about spirals. We see spirals in galaxies, in sea shells, on the top of our heads, in plants, etc..
Apparently an all consuming like void has no power over spirals and the laws at work with them for they are all over the place! Where is this grand spiral design coming from and how would you guess it is it being maintained in time, space and form or for eternity as far as we can tell?

On a different matter: the term "nothing" should be taken with a grain of salt when folks start talking about great things or of nothing... for in certain spiritual matters nothing really means no-thing which is not nothing!

Lets keep our feet firmly on the ground while our spirits soar. ;-)
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  #42  
Old 13-01-2019, 03:28 PM
ketzer ketzer is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 185
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewg3



Dear Ketzer,.......

I would like to thank you for your reply and for the time and effort you put in your answers. Yes, I try to make out the most out of my life …...

I know my time is limited here, and even if would not have been, I would have lived the same (according to my perception) each moment as my last, and still have motivation to live. Until 2 months ago I did not even thought of death and afterlife as I had faith in soul and afterlife. But now as my faith sort of faded and became more skeptical I sort of feel uncomfortable knowing that there in the end might be an eternal oblivion (void)/unconscious/endless dreamless sleep and not reuniting with my parents.

I appreciate that your answers were very well scientifically documented indeed.

You are welcome, but note that scientific documentation I provided is not intended so much so much to prove something to you as it is to potentially break down some beliefs you might already have about what is and is not settled science.

Can you also give another opinion on the below?

1)We both agree that the brain works on chemical reactions and electrical impulses right? There's 20 W of Energy powering up the brain right? Think of the heart as a light switch. When the light switch is turned off where does that light from the bulb go? Well in human case our memories, feelings, thoughts might go nowhere but stay there inactive and are being destroyed as the meat rots down to skeleton. Obviously the consciousness will still work for a while as the oxygen from the brain won't be depleted instantly, but step by step, so consciousness might not fade instantly(or might not fade at all if we are not just a temporary arrangement of atoms and if the consciousness does not rely on the brain/just on the brain), but thoughts,feelings and memories might do. It is said that the last sense to fade away is hearing.

In the debate over what scientists call the “hard problem of consciousness”, there are those who do say the brain is the source of consciousness and when it goes, so does consciousness. This would seem to make sense because we notice that when something happens to the brain (e.g. frontal lobotomy), the nature of the person seems to be radically affected. But there are those who disagree and say the brain is more like a filter for consciousness. Yes, the holographic individual that is created by the filter changes when the filter is altered, but consciousness itself precedes the filter and remains unaltered in its basic nature. The first might argue that it is matter that gives rise to consciousness, and this is rational and logical from the viewpoint of the material realist. But the second might point to the double slit experiment and quantum physics and say, but is not matter just the representation of the vibrations in the quantum fields created within consciousness when it interacts with those fields? How can matter give rise to consciousness when it seems to depend on consciousness interacting with the quantum field in order to create matter in the first place?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2.../#6727ccd328c4

Who is right? IDK! Perhaps it is all in how one defines what is meant by “existing” and what is understood as “me”. Certainly the thinker and feeler that we experience during our lives as a “me”, is altered when the brain is altered. So if that is what we define as me, then yes it dies in much the same way the character you create in your mind as you read a story might die at the end of the book. On the other hand, if consciousness interacting with the quantum field is creating the matter that creates the brain that creates the filter that it then uses to spin a story for itself to experience, then though that story ends, consciousness continues on since that life, that “me”, was a hallucinatory experience created by consciousness in the first place. So, will you die and cease to exist? As usual, the answer appears to be ness. While all the facts you point out about brain death may be true, they are not conclusive to the question of what is the underlying nature of experience, including the experience of life? Does the person falling into a black hole pass the horizon without harm, or do they disintegrate and spread out over the surface area of the horizon? The answer is yes and/or no depending on how you ask the question and who you ask it to, the one doing the falling in, or the one watching it.

So what to believe in the absence of proof? I am willing to bet you anything you like that consciousness goes on after death, if you are willing to bet it does not and its oblivion for all. It's a bet I will never have to pay out on.


2)Why don't we remember how was it before being born? Why I don't remember how was it in the 1800's, why I feel void when I think about it? I hope it won't be the same as before being born (void) when I will die, but belief won't help make something reality. I heard my mom telling me that we are not allowed to remember past lives/experiences. But then I can postulate the previous Tooth Fairy story saying that "We are not allowed to see the fairy as she is invisible", or whatever that "dinosaurs still exist and are invisible so not allowed to see them".

I can postulate all day on why I don’t remember past lives. If by “I” we mean a character created by a brain composed of matter which was created by the interaction of consciousness with the quantum fields, then that “I” may not have had a previous life. Then again, maybe Mom is right, its against the rules. Maybe you don’t want to know about past lives because knowing with certainty of the illusory nature of the life experience spoils the effect consciousness is trying to experience in the first place. Going into battle in “real” life is a very different experience then going into battle in a video game.
BTW, believing in something can help to make it real, certainly, this is true of the olympic athlete, and true of the person taking the placebo. Personally, I suspect this is true well beyond the effects that science can currently explain. I might even say that believing in things may be the only thing that does make them real. That said, even if that is true, just because I may be able to create something in my simm world by believing in it, does not necessarily mean I can force that belief and creation to appear in yours. Just because I see you disintegrate at the horizon, does not mean you see it the same way. It is not just time and space that is relative, reality is relative to the observer.


3)How can I know that people that claim Reincarnation/NDE are telling the truth for real and not hoax? How come they are not Hallucinating with a brain which is being Oxygen depleted and fighting for survival (since in NDE, DMT might kick in?),why so many types of NDE, why not just the light tunnel for example?And yes I know NDE might be different from Death. In Reincarnation case they might make-up stories or just hallucinate as well by their brains imagination? How to know that soul/afterlife are not man-made inventions since stone age to get over death more easily? Do other insects/animals have souls as well? Also what do you think will happen if a person is Cryo preserved/frozen in liquid nitrogen right after death? Will they experience a coma-state like being unconscious?

You can’t know if someone is telling you the truth unless you know what the truth is. And again, if we live in some sort of parallel simm universes, they may be telling you something that is true in theirs but not in yours. We are all hallucinating all the time. Our experience of reality is not out there, our brains create a virtual reality hologram world within based on the binary data being fed into them by the nerve fibers of the senses. That is the world in which we experience our lives. Ultimately, the senses and the brain themselves may be part of a larger and deeper illusion of reality, a larger holographic universe within. “Out there” may not exist at all, or at least may need to be redefined or the meaning of the term re-understood. Whatever death may be, a transition to something else, or fade to black, the experience is going to be a hallucination, I might argue that all experience is a hallucination, in any dimension, on any plane of existence. So what, it is experience nonetheless. I would expect the transition to death to be different for all of us because the hallucination created is always going to draw from the understanding and expectations of the consciousness going through it, the one creating the hallucination. I would expect this to be true regardless of how the death transition ends. We all build our realities a bit different and therefore they all decay away a bit differently, regardless of what comes after.

Reincarnation is the same way, could be BS’ing you, could believe it themselves but be typing from a padded room, could be true and accurate, could be skimming through one of an infinite number of eternally existing life stories that they never actually completely lived out...could be, could be, could be any of them or any combination. But unless you know the truth (assuming even that there is only one truth), how can you ever judge another’s claims with any certainty.

I am getting well beyond science here and into my own spiritual beliefs, but I would not say things “have souls”. IMO, there is consciousness, and it takes many forms, and it is all forms. It is the creator and the created and the experiencer of that creation. It is, I believe, fundamental, but undefinable and unknowable in its fundamental state. It can only be experienced through it expressions. It is the nothing from which all things arise and to which all things fade back into. It is the information, the informer, and the informed. Time, space, matter, and form are all derivatives that arise from and within this mystery we call consciousness.


4)If I experience Past Live Regression/NDE, how can I know that what I am experiencing is true/real and not a hallucination of my brain?

It is all hallucination and it is all true and real. You can travel through any part of the block universe you desire, you can experience any story in the akashic records you wish. It is your universe, they are your records, ultimately every answer you find there is true, nothing is hidden from you that will not be revealed. You just need to know how to ask the question, and how to believe in the answer you get.

5)Will I really be me after death? Will I get to meet my parents after their death and mine?

Yes.

Thank you in advance,
Andy
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