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  #201  
Old 22-08-2018, 08:18 PM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
There are always a few bad apples. It doesn't mean you throw out the entire batch because of it.



Yes the rotten apples are found in some crops..... Thankfully the good one's outnumber the tarnished...
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  #202  
Old 22-08-2018, 09:03 PM
Clover Clover is offline
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Hello members


I cleaned this thread up a bit and I will have a temporary close down.

It is important that members keep on topic with the original subject, and most importantly be kind to each other ( seriously, is that too much to ask on a Buddha thread?) Will reopen soon.

Keep in mind, 3 strikes and your out of this forum


Kindest,
Cloves
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  #203  
Old 25-08-2018, 12:43 PM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
There are always a few bad apples. It doesn't mean you throw out the entire batch because of it.




Zakly. We don't deal with perfections, so just take the good with the bad.
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  #204  
Old 25-08-2018, 12:57 PM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain95
Doesn't everyone who posts ideas do this? Every post is an assertion of belief, opinion, or truth. This is what I think. This is what I believe. This is what is true. Here is this famous religious or spiritual authority who says it. So it is true. Or, the heck with religious authorities, here is what I say is true.

Every post is a person asserting (power) an idea they (authority) have in that moment.


No, people just speak in a conversation.


Quote:
But the question I would ask is, can we have no opinions, beliefs, or truths in the moment? So that there is nothing to assert or defend?


Power is played by creating positions, and takes form when one asserts a personal deficiency to the discredit of another - I become the expert on you, for example - I become the knower as you become the known - so I can say things that are 'true' about you. Sometimes it's only an anomaly so it has no significance, but sometimes it's characteristic of the discourse. I'm not the only one who notices, and I don't know what got 'cleaned up' around here, but I can assume it was narrative which was less that complimentary, which involves some level of ill-intent, and as ill-intent is the harbinger of harm, protection measures take place.


I think the desire to teach drives the positioning strategies we see in this section, and intent is quite a murky business, because my desire for your happiness is not necessarily purely intended - it can be something that appears to me as my desire to help, which may tainted by my craving for some higher spiritual status - or another thing which is isn't 'metta'.

The think with self awareness at the level of intent, it really does require a great deal of honesty, so that we really 'know what we do', as opposed to 'know not what they do', as JC put it.


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The now is like a new page in a coloring book. We color it as we wish. We are the creators of our experience of what is. To a degree, we can alter what is as well. Not in all ways obviously as karma plays a role.

What if Buddha's main message was, we don't have to color the new page in the coloring book at all. We can leave it as it is. Leave everything in it's original state before we mess around with it, before we color it according to our ideas and beliefs and thoughts.
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  #205  
Old 25-08-2018, 01:46 PM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
Gem,

Please read this again and see where you are projecting onto others your own issues.


Well the assertion of my issues is you being the expert on me, and thereby assuming the position to make this athoriative assertion, instead of addressing what I actually said in the comment I made to you prior to you taking such a stance.


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Exerting Power? That is really only in your head.



Can you show me a quote from you where you have advocated quoting from "supposedly holy text is fine, great and helpful"? Because you have been saying even within this post that doing so is about power. Also, I can't really recall too many quotes from holy texts from you to indicate that is your position. I can't remember any to be honest.


I ceaselessly reference Buddhist teachings, but not to fortify my own positions.


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You can't know someone's intent.


That's naive.



Quote:
It is a projection from within yourself.

Try the Dharma Contemplation and you will see, it is all you projecting your own issues and fears onto others. To dismiss them...


The pattern is to deride first, and then instruct.


Quote:
Also, the logical way to learn within a discussion is to quote from authoritive, learned, respected teachers on the topics when there is a debate. If you don't and just well I thing it is this and someone else is no, I think it is this. It is like dumb and dumber talking to each other.


I made the point of how people misuse the authorative text to prop up their personal viewpoint, and this relates to motive. I have seen the kind of speech, and apparently some was cleaned up that arises from a particular sort of intent, not a kind intent, and I'm not so naive that I don't know what sort of reactionary mind drives intents that give rise to thread closures.


Quote:
Yes, you learn from those who have more knowledge and experience than you. You don't project your issues on why they are sharing onto them. That is nothing more than your own issues coming out.


I just talk to my teachers about my meditation practice and they comment in an appropriate way,


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Gem, you have a history of talking about power, authority figure issues




that's true.





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and how it is all about control and power.


That's a misrepresentation. I rarely speak in extremes and almost always speak in nuances.


Quote:
If you will notice, the topic has been about texts and views on the teachings. Who brought up peoples intent? Who brought up issues with Power?


I did. You started the issues accusations, which is a domination tactic. Basically you're just a guy like me so you don't get to make personal assertions, tell me what I believe, and so on. That's reasonable, isn't it?


Quote:
You are doing what you accuse others of.


I don't actually tell you about your issues, claim to know what you believe and so forth. I don't. I'm not the expert on you and don't pretend to be.


Quote:
One way to end a discussion is to accuse others of ill intent, of wanting authority, control and power by sharing teachings or god forbid being a teacher. Unless of course it is you doing the teaching.. right?


Well in the past I have talked to you until you start to assert things about me, then I stop talking to you.


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Right meditation?
It is right to you, to your meaning, to your understanding but that doesn't make it right for others.


That's true.


Quote:
Saying it is 'right meditation' shows some ego
Well, that's not true, but I think we can all see how it works to discredit me, and position you as the expert on Gem. It's there to see. it's not a respectful way to address anyone.


Quote:
especially from someone who has said they have no experience in jhanas in the Buddhist section.




Yes this is true, teachings on Jhanas were mentioned in passing but were not covered in depth during my meditation studies. I might have experienced what is called 'jhanna' but I have no knowledge of Jhannas in the philosophy. I don't know what 'jhanna' means or refers to. To suggest this gap in knowledge or experience discredits me in some way, however, is fundamentally misguided.
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  #206  
Old 25-08-2018, 02:29 PM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain95
I'm not sure it is intent as it is probably subconscious. Is there a word for subconscious intent? I'm not sure but there is some psychological causes though.


I use the word 'intent', but in the context of volition, which can be thought of as any urge to move the mind, and this mainly regards reactionary mentalities which aren't consciously intended even if one is conscious of their reactivity, in the sense that one may not have the stability of equanimity necessary to remain still given some extreme of experience. It could also be entirely unconscious, existing at subtle levels which mind is not sensitive enough to perceive, such that one only perceives the grosser consequence, but not the subtle level of the cause. In the kamma philosophy volition and cause are somewhat synonymous - the cause of potential or sankara which must produce outcomes as all the 'conditions' come together. Even the word 'conditions' takes on nuances of meaning in the Buddhist context in which is psychological as much as it is physical. I think what we could consider as relevant is how intent affects the 'conditions' of very subtle of vibes, which give rise to 'ambience' that enables environments that could be optimal for enhancing greater well being and happiness, and when this is a genuine concern, a true wish, entirely devoid of even the slightest ill-will, at least as far as is possible in view of limitations aforementioned, that's as good as it gets.






Quote:
Imagine you are invited to a birthday party. You have a zillion things to do but you are determined to go. You even buy an expensive gift, more than you can afford, for the person whose birthday it is. Then as you get in your car to drive to the party, you see an elderly person fall in the street then a car runs over their legs. You rush to the street and block traffic and call 911. After 40 minutes the police show up and medical help. By the time the police are done questioning you, two hours have gone by. You are so shook up and realizing the party is probably over by now, you go inside your house and call it a night.

The next day you find out the birthday person called everyone they knew and told them you did not come to the party because you dislike them so much. This person convinced all your mutual friends what a horrible person you are. They said you purposely said you would come and then did not so they would waste money buying you food. So convincing was this person, you find a lot of your mutual friends have disowned you. You find out the birthday person trashed you for snubbing them during the entire party.

Another example:

Say you sell something and when giving the person their change you accidentally short them a dollar. They count their change and start yelling, thief! This person is a low down dirty thief! Grab them!

These are examples of delusion and false interpretation. It is falsely adding a untrue "why" to events or experiences. What's interesting is these types of persons actually believe the false interpretations their brains come up with. I'm not sure why people do this type of activity but it is fairly common. Some do it more than others. Some do it in relatively mundane ways and others ruin lives and cause a lot of hurt and pain through this phenomenon.

When a person is in a position of authority and is prone to do this type of thing, they can ruin a lot of lives. The why is so wrapped up in the emotions and drives and feelings of persons. One's childhood probably has a lot to do with it as well, the relationships they had with their caregivers play into it I'm sure. The reality is there is a lot of tunnel vision among humankind. We only see our own tiny biased view. Then making it worse, some people are not open minded or questioning of their own truths at all. So if something pops into their minds, they treat it like hard truth. Then they work to convince others of the same false views.

Like how in the first example a person missed a party due to an accident, but the birthday person said they missed it due to them being a hateful person, one can post something, and somebody replys....oh look you are unable to follow what you write etc.

If I had to guess, I would say some kind of repressed anger is involved. That's how it seems to me. It's not really personal as any target will serve the same purpose. One gets the brunt of it just because they are available to be used. If one was not there, it would be done to somebody else. I think it is a lot more common than we realize. But like I said, most if the time we are guilty of it, nobody notices as it is not made into a big deal. Like you are driving down the road and you see somebody on the side of the road point at you. You think, "what a jerk he flipped me off....I hate people around here...." when the person was trying to alert you to a cat nearby. Things like that. I had a vain friend once when I was a teenager and every time he noticed a girl looking at him, he told me she was interested in him. He did this constantly even if some girl in a car just glanced in his direction when making a turn.

Our brains come up with a lot of non-sense. The question is, does one accept everything that pops into their heads or do they have the ability to question it, to not accept it all?
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