Thoughts & Emotions

[Uday_Advaita]

Originally Posted by lomax

My bad english betrayed me once again
I think i wanted to say that from the words thinker,doer,questioner,etc,
you are the ''er'' (last syllable).

I agree with the rest of your post.

you are the ''er'' (last syllable).

Well said
Namaskar

[Unseeking Seeker]

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Thanks for the links Shivani & Uday

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[zorkchop]

To All . . .

I heartily agree that it is wise to consider and be familiar with the facets or parts of the mind and the various “passions” the mind loves to indulge in.

neil is the closest to a basic grasp of it all. He is to be commended . . . altho there will always be refinements.

What one can quickly understand . . . that the mind can conjure up an answer to most anything . . . whether it makes any sense or not . . . and demand that all accept that as an “answer.” Take the statements by Uday Advaita . . . the teachings he proposes do not allow for an answer . . . ( the mind cannot come up with one so just dismiss any questioning ) ( which is true . . . the mind cannot go beyond itself to understand itself ) ( one cannot use mind to understand mind ) . . . and so . . . one can perpetually walk around in a semi-zombie mode and enjoy the present . . . and one has to pretty much rule the emotions with an iron grip to live and continue in this state.

I would like to ask . . .

1) . . . do you believe that ANY-one on this planet has the answer to all of this . . . such as where do thoughts come from . . . how do they tie into emotions . . . etc. Do the priestcraft, religionists, scientists, spiritualists, etc. . . . do you believe that any of them have the answer?

2) . . . if a person did have an answer . . . how would you determine on whether to listen to that person . . . given the principle that the answer would NOT go along with current thought and belief . . . and therefore would be highly suspect at best.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by zorkchop

I would like to ask . . .

1) . . . do you believe that ANY-one on this planet has the answer to all of this . . . such as where do thoughts come from . . . how do they tie into emotions . . . etc. Do the priestcraft, religionists, scientists, spiritualists, etc. . . . do you believe that any of them have the answer?

2) . . . if a person did have an answer . . . how would you determine on whether to listen to that person . . . given the principle that the answer would NOT go along with current thought and belief . . . and therefore would be highly suspect at best.

I do believe that there are Yogis on this planet who have the answers to all these questions and more, based on their own practical experience.

And there are teachings which also provide answers, even if for most of us these teachings are just working hypotheses in the absence of direct knowledge.

And I have no problem with such answers not fitting in with current thought and belief. For me, most current thoughts and beliefs are suspect, so the fact that such answers do not fit current thoughts and beliefs does not mean that these answers are invalid.

Peace.

[zorkchop]

I would wager . . . that if there were humans at any level that had actual working “answers” or understandings of how the mind works, what the emotions are and how they interact with mental thought, etc. . . . by now the info would have leaked out to the public LONG ago and that info would have turned the science’s of psychology and psychiatry on their heads. Since that has not happened . . . I would presume that this info has NOT reached an applicable and workable approach to the understanding of such.

One thing I swill say . . . you are to be commended on keeping an open mind on such things. Most people wouldn’t even consider considering beyond what current science tells them. Since people are left dangling on these answers . . . modern science doesn’t tell them much that is beneficial.

But then again . . . most people really do not WANT to know. They are content with juggling new information /data . . . and call that learning. It tends to keep people amused and content.

Originally Posted by iamthat

I do believe that there are Yogis on this planet who have the answers to all these questions and more, based on their own practical experience.

For sure.

JL

[Miss Hepburn]

Funny...where thoughts come from was never something I thought about.
I have no idea....BUT, what I do know is there are thoughts that are harmful, negative and useless, to me...
and over 10 yrs ago was taught I could control them, not be subject to their nonsense becoming depressed way too long over a breakup...

What a difference to see the power I have to simply change the channel, so to speak...
and have 'better feeling thoughts' as Abraham suggests.
Changes my world, my perspective, my letting go of worldly events...I always use the sudden dent in your car
you walk out and find, for example, lol....The lost check in the mail...those things.

Then we can focus our mind and emotions on what we want to...
not be lead around by a moody leaf blowing in the wind, so to speak.
Yay, much better.

The rudder of our thoughts is firmly in our own hands.


My input.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by zorkchop

I would wager . . . that if there were humans at any level that had actual working “answers” or understandings of how the mind works, what the emotions are and how they interact with mental thought, etc. . . . by now the info would have leaked out to the public LONG ago and that info would have turned the science’s of psychology and psychiatry on their heads. Since that has not happened . . . I would presume that this info has NOT reached an applicable and workable approach to the understanding of such.

it couldn't work that way. At even the gross level, Tesla for example didn't get much mileage even though he had a lot to say. This is because the world actively stood against him.

For example when he said let's transmit power through the air, it would be very efficient, the answer was we couldn't possibly transmit power through the air because there was no way to monetize that. So now we have power lines instead with electricity 'vibrating' at a rate dangerous to humans, and also waste a lot of energy because of it.

there was also something about fusion or fission or something years ago... it was touted as free energy? It was proved to be bunk at the time but I would wager that even if it wasn't bunk it would have to have been proved to be bunk anyway.. Because such a concept would have endangered the bottom lines of energy companies if was allowed to become a reality.

So who knows, maybe it wasn't bunk after all?

And that is in terms of concepts people might be even remotely willing to accept. It only gets worse from there...

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the thing is, from what I understand the path to what you said in what I quoted is inherently unlikeable according to social norms.

So few will walk far enough along it to get 'fruits' others might be able to see well enough to form the 'proof' others are always asking for, and if they do
get to that point part of what they learn is a way not to share with the world at large.

Jesus was the exception to that rule, he was relatively open even from the small amount of historical data we now have about him. But most nonetheless find the precedent he set unpalatable so his whole message is suspect in terms of not being something people are willing to act on.

For example how many are the people who even do something as simple as turning the other cheek? It isn't a 'desirable' thing to do in the social sense and as a result many will instead put up a fight at even the slightest provocation. But this is one of the easiest things to do, apparently... yet people won't do more than give it lip service, if even that.

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This is also the reason 'truth' in general is so hard to find - because the deepest truths are inherently unlikeable to our sense of sociability.

If you are on the path to seeking 'truth' you find yourself having to balance between your desire to relate to others in terms of what they will accept (because part of the truth is we need to be sociable), and your desire to learn what is really going on here.

[zorkchop]

Falling Leaves . . .

AB-SO-LOOTLY ! !

People play on the Path forever . . . some finally claiming to be far along . . . Eastern Monks and Western Religionists claim they are far along the Path . . . making money here and gathering followers there. Even the so-called mystic teachings and esoteric findings . . . all just a bit farther along in it all.

Everything bottlenecks at the “top” of the mental worlds . . . for lack of better words. To even head beyond that . . . let alone to actually get there even a baby step . . . leaves the so-called social or acceptable teachings behind. When I make the statement “Mind is not Soul and Soul is not mind . . . “ most people still believe and demand that Soul is just some kind of higher mental being . . . whether they have put in the lifetimes of “stopping the mind” and believing that this takes them somewhere special or not. Don’t get me wrong . . . it’s a necessary preliminary step . . . but it just doesn’t “take” you where they believe it does . . . but to suggest that to someone that is currently dealing with that entire scenario is to encourage warfare on their part. It’s not worth it. LIFE will be their greater teacher.

It is not necessarily that they do not want to share . . . it’s that they do not want to listen . . . and if they do . . . they just are curiously wondering what it is you have to say and are rarely deeply passionate and “driven” to find out Greater Truth . . . which is part of what gets an individual “there” in the first place. You’ll have the entire teachings of the Eastern people claiming “Boo on desire” . . . and so they stay where they are . . . which again . . . is pretty much normal.

Your statement that “Truth is inherently unlikeable” is brilliant . . . and absolutely right-on-the-money. So is your viewpoint on relating to others. The farther one goes on the Path . . . the less that individual will find walking alongside them.

Yet given eternity times 1000 to work with . . . everyone will eventually get there . . . one at a time . . . but the newbies and those in the “middle steps” make up the throngs . . . and they would just as soon throw a noose over a tree and hoist you up than to listen to you. Many . . . MANY more so-called saviors were killed for their efforts than Jesus.

And yet . . . walking these “ending steps” demands a level of learning some “lessons” that can be learned in no other way. Such is the way of the Path. I don’t make the rules.

[FallingLeaves]

it crosses my mind the point may not be to walk the Path(tm)... something else entirely may be at stake here... but since we are so sure we want a large part of our diet to be ideas about the 'true nature of reality' I guess the powers that be wanna make it count