How do you know you're good?

[Flexi-Girl]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

Hi Flexi-Girl,

How do you know you know?


~ J

I have been wrong about a lot of things before so I can't claim to know.

[Flexi-Girl]

Originally Posted by shoni7510

That is how we can judge good from evil and it is not universal but subjective. As we outgrow religion and become more spiritual the change will be reflected by our moral compass or conscience.

Good point.

[urbanzennist]

Originally Posted by Flexi-Girl

In the past societies have agreed on some horrible ideas or at least those with power did. If I am raised and taught by a society who agrees something evil is good, how would I know otherwise?

And always, there are those who were brought up while those bad ideas were mainstream and yet, something within them told them to go against it. It is important to find that source within ourselves. In fact, the people who fall into the trap of evil in a time when their society is perpetrating harm to others invariably do so because they wrongly follow the "moral" sensibilities of the time (which, at that particular time, happen to not be moral at all), instead of seeking truth of their own accord.

Although it is possible, usually people following rules mindlessly leads to more harm... you don't often see raving bands of independent spiritual seekers wreaking havoc on society (although it is possible to lose one's way while seeking on one's own as well).

[Flexi-Girl]

Originally Posted by urbanzennist

And always, there are those who were brought up while those bad ideas were mainstream and yet, something within them told them to go against it. It is important to find that source within ourselves.

I am a spiritual person first but also want to be rational. I like to know why these things are obvious to some but not others. There has to be some kind of universal good or rule that anyone can truly understand and aspire to.

[urbanzennist]

Originally Posted by Flexi-Girl

I am a spiritual person first but also want to be rational. I like to know why these things are obvious to some but not others. There has to be some kind of universal good or rule that anyone can truly understand and aspire to.

Not necessarily. Saying that the only logical way to do something is a "universal rule" is actually largely illogical. There are very few things in this life that have universal rules attached to them. Even gravity behaves differently depending on what circumstances it acts under. Rules are a construction of the human mind that we impose upon nature. As someone who works with applied math, there is the saying that "all models are wrong, some are useful". This means that absolutes aren't so easily found in reality. Your life experience should bear this out.

Rather, you have to ask where these peoples' understanding came from, if it didn't come from the rules that were set in front of them... and only you can answer that one. They may have made a "rule" in their heart to follow, but first, they must have made an observation of something real that they observed either in life, or within themselves.

[William 辰]

Originally Posted by Flexi-Girl

It seems traditional western religions are not popular with our society. Many have given up on the idea of sin, good and evil, heaven and hell. This makes me wonder then... If people are giving up on traditional religion, how do we know exactly how to judge good and evil, right from wrong? How can a person judge themselves as good if they don't have a means to know for a fact they are good. Some people don't even believe in good or evil.

I generally think of myself as a good person, but I'm only going by my personal feelings and the fact I am not in any immediate trouble. But how can I be sure I am a good person without western religion to tell me? If I were a scientist, and I told you 2+2 is 4, you would want me to prove how I know that.

If we don't believe in traditional religion, can we guarantee we're good moral people? Or is there no good and evil and it's all subjective? How will society hold together if there no distinct set of rules to help us make clear decisions? Or better yet, how do we judge who is harmful or dangerous if nobody is good or bad?

For the record I am not arguing for religion.

Actually you don't need anybody to tell you anything to know the truth. Because religious people are just regular people who follow a set of rules. They are human, just like you and me. They don't have more opportunities or means to know the truth than anyone else: Just follow your intuition. If you don't judge people in terms of good or bad and instead see them as the source of light that they are and you treat them as such; the evil and the wrong will start to fade away.
Most people are thinking too much. And of course thinking is one of the best ways to spend your time, but if you start feeling a little bit more, everything will fall into place.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by urbanzennist

In fact, the people who fall into the trap of evil in a time when their society is perpetrating harm to others invariably do so because they wrongly follow the "moral" sensibilities of the time (which, at that particular time, happen to not be moral at all), instead of seeking truth of their own accord.

But a lot of times if you do not follow, you will be punished. Oh my goodness, this one requires a lot of thought. This almost reminds me of the Matthew question 10:34. Maybe sometimes one knows by the pain one's must go through. I've debated this particular thought many times.

[Flexi-Girl]

Originally Posted by urbanzennist

Not necessarily. Saying that the only logical way to do something is a "universal rule" is actually largely illogical. There are very few things in this life that have universal rules attached to them. Even gravity behaves differently depending on what circumstances it acts under. Rules are a construction of the human mind that we impose upon nature. As someone who works with applied math, there is the saying that "all models are wrong, some are useful". This means that absolutes aren't so easily found in reality. Your life experience should bear this out.

Rather, you have to ask where these peoples' understanding came from, if it didn't come from the rules that were set in front of them... and only you can answer that one. They may have made a "rule" in their heart to follow, but first, they must have made an observation of something real that they observed either in life, or within themselves.

I am finding out many of the morals I was raised with are in fact bad because they were based on lies, and distortions and other people's world views. I care about my home, my future family, and my country so I want to know what's right. I want to know if I am a decent person to start. I mean I feel I am, but I am also susceptible to people around me.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Flexi-Girl

It seems traditional western religions are not popular with our society. Many have given up on the idea of sin, good and evil, heaven and hell. This makes me wonder then... If people are giving up on traditional religion, how do we know exactly how to judge good and evil, right from wrong? How can a person judge themselves as good if they don't have a means to know for a fact they are good. Some people don't even believe in good or evil.

Perhaps people are not 'giving up' on "the idea of sin, good and evil, heaven and hell", perhaps they are recognizing them as part of the problem. Ok, I admit probably too optimistic.

"right from wrong" do not come from "good and evil", they come from a moral or self interested perspective. In other words, what enhances or diminishes what you believe in or what furthers or retards your progress towards your goals.

Many people instinctively want a 'better life'. Though there are many ideas as to what constitutes 'better', people try to judge right from wrong by evaluating (often incorrectly) what is better or worse for them.

[pdizzle45]

Remembering to judge ourselves before we judge other people is good.