Is this behaviour ok? Should alarm bells be ringing?

[Evangeline 77]

To be honest the OP sounds like she has some BPD traits.
(I know the signs, I have them myself, getting therapy. Obviously I'm not a psychiatrist but she does sound like me. )

[angelic star]

If you were to evaluate all your feelings, all your issues, you will realize that there are many reasons more than just the issue of your boyfriend being supportive of you.
It's okay that you felt cornered and abandoned at a time of need. If you were to expand your perspective, sometimes this takes a fair amount of inner work, you will realize your boyfriend is just a trigger in this dynamic for how you feel.
I know people demand support in partnerships, and that's fair. Ask yourself why are you feeling such release. Sometimes you might not find a definite answer to this for months/ years on end. A release of emotions is not something that you can put logic over, as something enabled it, it's a soul need. Like an awakening we need to relieve our emotions. At this time be kind to yourself. Be with yourself, it will be hard to objectively remove your boyfriend from your emotions, but ask yourself apart from your relationship to him, what else is triggering this outburst for you.
When you separate yourself and your emotional needs from that of your partner, develop and work on your own self, you partnership will grow. This will also enable your partner to have more trust in you and to support you more in times of crisis in the future.
Your boyfriend could have been more re assuring of you at that time, but he wasn't. He had his reasons at that moment , and you need to separate your demands from it for a time being. Know that your emotional triggers might not be just the other person but the expectations around it. It's very hard to separate yourself from a partner or detach your emotions from their's. It's like a string of emotional responses, reciprocation or validation we need. What if this validation were never to come from this person or any other. Maybe this validation has an underlying current of issues that you don't understand yourself and thus cannot communicate to your partner.
Be with yourself, sit with yourself, be in your heart, and ask where you stand and what is truly your's that you can heal and work on without any validation from anyone. This will give you perspective of why you feel the way you do, and will be able to let of of the little things that your partner fails to respond to at times. It is not always intentional.
It's hard, but in the end it's worth it. So work on yourself, be with yourself, ask yourself tough questions and thus you will be able to take more charge of your emotions in this partnership.
If you can talk to an expert or counsellor to process your feelings, that would be great. You don't have to go through this alone.

hope this helps you somewhat and hope you find peace in this situation with you, brightest blessings your end ~

[Tullyquinn11]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

TBH no one is saying anyone should be a therapist in their relationship, as I see it. Even if a professional, that's not a dynamic that should be brought in...because then you are not relating as an equal but rather as the expert or the fixer whilst you tell the other how things should be, LOL...

The OP has said she has carried her own load and is always striving to do more, and she's owned where she was challenged and rose to it. Which several here have said is good and carry on. But IMO we want to stop short of being overly harsh and failing to acknowledge her right to her perspective. We don't know her personally and we cannot say we know better than she if the gent has been avoidant or seemed off in some way.

If I were coming into a group setting that was not on SF, I would definitely say we need to be careful of appearing to gaslight another by invalidating their experiences and perceptions. By downgrading them in any way. In whatever way, these are the revelations of the soul, of the heart, and brushing them off is probably not in the interests of her highest good, IMO.

There is this idea that I feel is fundamentally flawed and unsustainable...and that is that sex and casual companionship can be at the core of a sustainable partnership without causing harm and trauma to the heart and spirit of many. The reality is that sex (a sacred act IMO) without a mutuality of authentic love and meaningful commitment is simply not going to be sustainable for a huge proportion of enlightened folks but especially for women in general. And that's something we all need to begin accepting much more openly and more consciously. So that we can give others their space to decide what is and is not right for them. And to allow them to draw boundaries and to put forth very human and reasonable requests in relationship without castigating them overly.

The OP has IMO legitimate concerns regardless of whether she is allowed to simply be human and be in tears once a year. To ask for support in a critical moment. This is not about having a prior engagement with a friend. A person could call and be late with good reason, and then again he could also come by next morning and be there. Etc. It was NOT a strictly either/or situation and for the gent to frame it so was a false dichotomy to begin with. Clearly it was convenient to do so...but it would be equally as easy to have been a bit flexible and found a way to stay a bit or follow up later with mate or Sista, with a little clear communication to his mate and to Soulsista. That's simply the loving and kind thing to do. But that begs the question...perhaps he doesn't have a deeper, authentic love for her and as a result, perhaps he wasn't able to be kind or present when it wasn't about him (getting sex and fun times from her).

If he didn't do any of this after a year of exclusive sex and no prior request like this for a bit of his care and time, then it doesn't mean he doesn't care at all. But I think there is good call to express her concern regarding his degree of emotional superficiality and/or availability whilst he's penetrating her regularly and she's kept herself exclusive for him regarding sex and emotional intimacy. And why is that? Most women, esp. those who are evolved (IMO) are not comfortable with casual sex, esp. long term. Some men as well, particularly if they are extremely strong and centred. But otherwise that's just not the case for others and they are happy to have sex and even hang out for ages whilst never taking the woman too seriously. Thus if her assumption is a mutuality of an authentic love which is not present in reality, she needs time and support to accept the reality of what actually is and see if she is still down with being in a sexual relationship that lacks the depth and the love she needs. There is good reason to take time to evaluate whether the sexual relationship has a deeper foundation than exclusivity of genital contact and the fun times.

It's an honest thing to do and support, not gaslightling or misdirection, is what is needed. IMO we don't need to tell her that it was wrong to expect kindness and support in a pinch if it's inconvenient. It's not about right or wrong per se. Is it wrong to cry once a year? Is it wrong to be simply human and ask for someone to sit with you a bit once a year? What if he had asked her to stay in tears, 1st time ever, and she left to meet up for a drink, and came round later for the shag and bit of chat after he'd "manned up" (tis rubbish, yes?) and dealt with it on his own?

We are all human and that love and support are the only things we have to offer that are of much worth. If we must be 100% self-reliant, like a machine, and if we are wrong to seek or desire any emotional exchange whatsoever...then we are saying that only the sexual and activity related aspects are real or matter. This is IMO not a relationship. It is a functional arrangement or set of arrangements for sex and outings.

This time next year when she is in tears (about the superficiality of being penetrated without authentic love?) and needs a shoulder, she could just skip ahead, just leave, and just cut out the share altogether...but then she doesn't need to be in a sexual relationship at all, IMO. She doesn't need to be in a relationship to shag someone if he doesn't care for her as a person or want to love and engage with the whole person. She could just leave off. Nor does she need to shag someone just to to hang out and do fun stuff. That's what fam, friends or activity groups are for, LOL.

Just some additional thoughts to balance all the talk of her manning up further and thus only bringing her perfectly controlled self, the sweetness and light, and her desire for sex and fun, to the relationship...hahaha. Even better, let's just wait till the androids come out at an affordable price and all the folks who just want the 2-D sex and good times can buy one of those

Peace & blessings
7L

I agree with 7L.
I would feel very sad that my partner didn't seem to care about how i was feeling.
And if i loved and cared about someone, then i would want to be there for them if they were feeling sad, emotional and upset. Even if it was a friend i would have stayed with them, especially if they had asked me to stay.
I would feel horrible leaving someone in a state like that.

[7luminaries]

Thank you for the support Tully.

I want to say to all who've posted here that I completely agree that we all need to take ownership. I am really big on ownership

But I also think that when folks enter a relationship which is sexual and exclusive with no mutual authentic love, spiritual and emotional trauma will arise eventually unless both partners feel nothing and it is 100% exchange-based, an arrangement for sex and outings.

Whatever else a woman needs to do for herself, IF she is in a sexual partnership (i.e., exclusive) for a year and she has no or very superficial emotional return...then unless she was as cold and utilitarian as he has been, she has been living a lie and has just now found out. Which is a rather sad and devastating thing that many of us have had to confront in the past or may be secretly putting off considering at this very mo.

In a situation like this, we need to be sensitive to the human aspect. But because so many of us are in more or less the same relationships (nothing else seems to exist aside from abstinence) where we are giving everything for nothing -- or very little IMO if just sex and hanging out -- we may find we can't be sensitive to her feelings even when it's the decent thing to do. That would open up our own vulnerabilities and illusions and then we're a mess too, not just Soulsista.

If we were all wired to just crave sex, no one would be having these conversations. But 50% of the population is not wired this way...nor many men either, once they've come into their heart centre. In an ideal world, those men too should be on here saying hey, the gent was a bit cold and callous IMO. Because I'm certain they're thinking it, LOL, at least some of them.

I feel like all this...and the whole Aziz Ansari thing (a decent but clueless man follows the "normative" predatory script and degrades a woman thinking it's OK to use others for sex because it's commonplace -- this is our society in a nutshell)...all of it...is an opportunity to get real. To say this is why Soulsista is crying. Because she's having sex instead of making love as she thought.

To say this is why I (7L) am a bit numb still...and I'm still trying to find my own way back to my emotions, which were treated as if they were burdensome by others, along with the rest of me, so I had to shut them down. Etc. I think many gents may also find themselves here, too because they've been living here their whole lives. I haven't always, so I feel the lack because I naturally have the depth...coming slowly...it's much better now than same time last year, LOL. Many don't even know their own depth...also tragic.

And it's why these gents get into relationships based on sex which only go so far because they could have the cadillac of love in the heart of their girlfriend or partner but they cannot appreciate it so it may as well be an old beater...it's all the same if you're just having sex and hanging out.

I hope someone else may see it the same way, too.
That none of what I say is a criticism of any one person here. More that what I'm saying is a criticism of the culture and what we've been shown and told is "normal" and "okay". It may be commonplace, but so much of it IMO is really just so horrid and traumatic to the heart and soul.

And it's ok IMO to say that, and to say I want no more of it. And where do we go from here, all together?

Or, it should be

Peace & blessings
7L

[Incognitomagnito]

Originally Posted by SoulSista

I hope this isn't too long, I really need some guidance so please bear with. Context: I've been with someone for around 10 months and we've become very close. We love and care for eachother deeply, and our huge differences in the way we tick has really helped us both learn a hell of a lot about different ways of thinking and being. It's had it's challenges, very much so in the first few months as we strived to understand eachothers languages, but it's become a loving, fun, non-judgemental and mostly very healthy relationship. It has completely forced me to evaluate my "****", because unlike other boyfriends he doesn't appease my insecurities and pander to my low self esteem. He is loving but doesn't take on what isn't his and I love that about him. This has actually resulted in a semi breakdown of sorts on my end - at first i just tried to blame him for doing the whole relationship thing wrong (aka why aren't you trying to fix me and telling me how wonderful I am every 5 minutes etc) but eventually I realised actually almos every issue I've tried to project onto him stems from my own low self esteem, and things I really need to heal myself - and boy, is there a lot to heal!

Situation: Today, in a state between feeling pre-menstrually extremely volatile and generally emotionally depressed (which is where I am residing this last month or 2) I reached a dark place. Boyfriend (let's call him Raul) was at my place and all day long I'd been "off". Eventually, I broke down and started crying hysterically. I didn't know exactly why I was crying, but I really knew I wanted him there with me. Various things have been getting on top of me recently (chronic health problems, evaluating and healing longstanding self esteem and depression problems, ex problems etc). Raul kept asking if he could help but we both knew he had plans and had to leave shortly. I deteriorated and broke down a little more and eventually told him I really didn't want him to leave. He said he had to go (he was meeting a friend for a beer who he hadn't seen in a while) and I continued to express how much I didn't want him to, without ever pressuring him. I couldn't even bring myself to see him out of my front door like I usually would, I just lay on my sofa sobbing. He eventually said I've got to go now or I'll miss my train, and left. I stayed sobbing. After he left I felt like a knife had been plunged into my heart. I could barely breathe as I assimilated what had just happened, that someone I was in a relationship with had literally walked out and left me in that state. I called him shortly after as I felt very unresolved. He explained that he felt there wasn't anything he could do, and that he'd have to leave later in the night anyway due to travelling home to get his stuff for work tomorrow morning, which is all fair. So he decided to leave to see the friend and keep his plans, and if he'd stayed he would've just resented staying and having to cancel his plans for me.

On the one hand, I understand that this is probably completely fair behaviour. On the other, the idea of ever walking out on someone I loved or cared about in that state is something I simply cannot fathom. I simply wouldn't possess the capability to do so, no matter who it was. And the fact he said he'd have resented staying is what has really stuck with me. That seeing the pain I was in, hearing me calmly and respectfully express my wishes for him not to go (I didn't beg, moan or manipulate) and walking out to prioritise a beer with a not particularly close friend, was unnegotiable and would've been a chore worthy of harbouring resentment, rather than a labour of love done from a place of compassion for somebody you love in need. And this sobbing/asking him to stay thing isn't a regular occurrence on my end, this is the first time this has ever occurred.l

This has really made me question myself, and certainly him. I'm discombobulated and unsure how to feel. He has since apologised and said he felt bad leaving (but only when he realised quite how dark a place I'd ended up in afterward) and I desperately need a truly objective opinion on this behaviour. Is this completely 100% fair or should alarm bells be ringing? I know I'm the only person responsible for me, but where does "duty" in relationships begin and end on things like this? OPINIONS PLEASE ❤️

Ok this might sound a little harsh but this is how i feel about the situation. No judgement from my part by the way I'm only speaking from my experience.

Now to preface I used to be of this same way, I used to get very emotional and expect people to stay around me when i was deeply upset and would go into even more of a downword spiral when people left or wouldn't stick around with me. The truth is that is what needed to happen. After many years of being emotionally clingy and jumping with the first person who showed me a bit of an ego boost (to then be manipulated by them) I started to question why is this happening to me? Why are all these people abandoning me? Using me? Manipulating me? Well it took me a few years of deep contemplation to realise that the problem was mine and not anybody elses. I was trying to jump to anybody to avoid dealing with my own demons and rather than accepting my part and taking responsibility for my own actions, part played and emotions, it was easier to project myself as a victim and that is what i became.

"unlike other boyfriends he doesn't appease my insecurities and pander to my low self esteem. He is loving but doesn't take on what isn't his and I love that about him. This has actually resulted in a semi breakdown of sorts on my end - at first i just tried to blame him for doing the whole relationship thing wrong (aka why aren't you trying to fix me and telling me how wonderful I am every 5 minutes etc) but eventually I realised actually almos every issue I've tried to project onto him stems from my own low self esteem"

Right here you have answered your own question, you seem to be going through the duality of your old conditioning (mindset) and an emerging new awareness and with this emergence of new the old will arise and try to bring you back down to this old mindset. The truth is that you alone have to deal with this pain that you are feeling, there is nothing that he could of done by staying and there would be nothing gained overall because it would only be appeasing your old conditioning (mindset) by emotionally manipulating him into giving you that validation and "telling you how wonderful you are" to ease the pain, I am sorry but you may say you are not manipulating but that is what it is i'm afraid but i recognise it is not you as such but more your old mindset trying to take the wheel and find a way to create something that is familiar. I'm sorry but he was not in the wrong to leave you if he had plans IMO and you did try to manipulate him.

Anyway what you need to do is just fuly accept this pain when it arrises and not try to get anyone to pander to you when it arises, if people are around thats all good i'm not saying become a hermit and block yourself off but to find strengh in the pain and face it fully whenever it may arise and just let it pass, don't resist it. Let yourself cry your eyes out, punch the lights out of your pillows, try and stay aware whenever it arises and whenever your mind tells you you wish you had this, i wish X was here, I need a cig, Why don't they care? etc ... eventually the pain doesn't control you anymore, you recognise it as it arises and you can smile as it comes up and you even smile at yourself for falling for the minds tricks from time to time theres no shame in it and theres no shame in wherever you are in your progress.

It sounds like your on the right path though imo the pain of the past and all these things arising there is no running away from you just have to face it sooner or later but there are going to be good times of emergence and times of mind trying to trick you back into it, the trick is to not avoid the pain and embrace the good but to embrace all of it as it comes along. Wish you all the best in your relationship and i hope i havn't offended you, I'm giving my honest opinion. Cheers!

[CrystalSong]

Where did our OP go?

Originally Posted by CrystalSong

Where did our OP go?

Perhaps she is still in the doldrums - although a brief thanks for people's efforts wouldn't have been out of place IMO.

[Colorado]

Actually, it should get alarm bells ringing. I know everyone is going to see his side, but you really have to see yours....your side matters in your life. This is a question of incompatibility in my eyes. I dated someone like this, and at first I took his behavior to mean he was strong and I was weak. However, as the years went on, I became very alone and felt abandoned. He had no interest in me when Inwasmtmdoing well, or sick...and especially if he had plans with friends or his own interest going on. He was very selfish, as it got to where I was taking care of him when he had the flu, and then he would give it to me, and he was nowhere around while I was sick....if just a few short minutes or watching tv, not checking on me, or seeing if I needed anything to drink or eat...like I did him.

If a man doesn't give what he takes, or care enough to make sure you are ok....he won't get better with time, he will get worse. As someone he is intimately connected to, I find it distressing reading that he left you that way. All this is going to do is make you more insecure, and clinging....because he is only going to give you attention on his terms. It's weird to me that you think him being selfish is an admirable trait. Especially when you are down, and he doesn't care enough to tell you that you are beautiful, or hold you.

You seem to think that men in the past were somehow enabling you, when they were trying to make you feel better. You will miss men like that, when you have been with someone who really doesn't give a damn about how you feel...as long as you don't tread on their own interest, they could care less if they leave you in a mess on the floor.

Those relationships become very lonely, and stressful. I think alarm bells should be going off...and they are, that's why you made this post. You need to listen to your own distress signals.

Personally, I wouldn't have left you that way, even if you were a neighbor....and especially if you were someone I dearly loved or cared about.

That's not a partner or friend.

[7luminaries]

Very well said and spot on, Colorado. I agree with all you say.

Peace & blessings
7L