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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Spiritualism

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  #1  
Old 10-08-2014, 07:40 AM
prevail prevail is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 43
 
free will and incarnation

When people, souls, incarnate they take with them a life plan. Well that is what some people picture. Your life plan will be executed and your guides will help you succeed and will also make certain that your life plan gets to work.

What I dont get is when you ask them as a human being for help in a certain way, they just dont help you in that way. Some would defend that they will help you in a more profound way than you as human can perceive.
Maybe there is also the possibility that the spirits in the world besides us are just as messed up as we and they cant do sh... or wont do sh. They are just as ignorant as us.

Think about it, you incarnate and you say that they help you unfold your plan in the way you have planned. They honour your wish above as soul creature, but when ur down below they help you, when u have asked, in a way you dont understand, so basically you are fooling yourself in saying that they will help you in your plan, but when it comes to human needs they only help u in a way that is best for you. How can someone know what is best for you? Especcially someone whos not a human, someone whos not bound by law and earthly things? You would disagree too, if you have lost your child and someone who has never had a child in his life said, that he feels your loss.

Are you grateful for the roads that are paved, before, after, or when you will never walk on it? Are you grateful that it rains in asia while you see your food crops shrink to nothing? Cause eventually earth will bring the rain from asia to your land?

And free will? Well if you are in the world besides us and decide what you want its your free will and they execute it, but when you are on earth and the same free will asks for something you dont get it because.... so do you have two different free wills?
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  #2  
Old 16-08-2014, 12:57 PM
Xiomara Xiomara is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Under the Morning Star
Posts: 382
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well,its complicated,but infew words(just my humble opinion):
we come here on Earth with a purpose,a mission,or a task,and before our birth we,with our free will,have chosen our road.The suitable and best circumstances for us to fulfill our goal is what i call Destiny,and our personal mission is what i call Fate.Sometimes we have to correct things from past lives,sometimes we choose harder ways,and there are occasions when pain or lost is part of our lives.
Spiritual guides are always with us but since they are guides,they do just that:guide us.The way they do it is not always pleasant to our ego,and most of the times we must quiet our mind to be able to understand what is beyond the ego and our immediate needs.
In Shamanism spirit guides are animals or plants,and it means that their ways to communicate with us are unknowable to mind and reason.
Also,the great importance of the Heart in spiritual teachings is found all ver the world.We just need to put aside the common sense and listen to our inner voice,in silece,when our higher self,our heart can teach us.
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  #3  
Old 16-08-2014, 03:39 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southwest, USA
Posts: 12,999
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I have never had that concept that my Guides or Angels second
guess me and give me something that is 'better'.

They have reminded me of appointments, helped me when lost, remind me
to take an umbrella or
better turn around and make sure the oven is indeed off, when it wasn't...so I see them as protectors and helpers, only.

I met one Guide in a lucid dream and she was nothing more than someone suggesting things to me, with
attitude I might add,...I ultimately had to do 'it' myself to see that she was correct.

She doesn't want me to do stupid, inane, useless things...like
going down the Proverbial wrong road... I got the feeling she roles her eyes alot.

Free will? It's all me! And my free will has decided long ago to listen
to them as they
whisper to double check if the doggy gate is locked.

(But venturing into dangerous emotional territory I sometimes don't listen
to their blatant warnings*.)


*italics signifying what they do
__________________
.,
,
,

"Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death
by riding daily in a balloon of divine perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones...
Meditate unceasingly, that you quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence"

~Lahiri Mahasaya, the Guru of Yogananda's Guru

I have no scientific evidence for anything I say.







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  #4  
Old 17-08-2014, 02:05 PM
Fairyana Fairyana is offline
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In my view we are all consciousness, part of the same consciousness system, some more developed than others, those who are developed enough to be guides, guides those who are further behind. So guides do know what it's like for us, because they have lived in this physical world too. To me this is what makes more sense anyway.

As for how they guide us, they cannot directly help us or fulfill our wishes, that would make us too dependent on them and affect our free will. So guides have to be more subtle than that. We have to quiet our ego, our mental chatter to get their message, to connect with the "consciousness system". It's when we are down below that we need even more to quiet our thoughts because often times our thoughts are so upsetting that they block any attempt our guides make of contacting us. It's our responsibility to improve the quality of your consciousness, no one can do that for us though we can all be supportive of others.
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  #5  
Old 25-08-2014, 02:27 PM
knightofalbion knightofalbion is offline
Master
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 19,228
 
The bigger picture ...

I was in the park the other day and I came to a border, freshly planted with flowers. It was pretty enough, but looked jumbled.
I walked furrther down the path, turned and lo! I saw the design all perfectly laid out. The flowers had been planted to form a pattern (in this case a crest)

Earthly life is much like this. Apparently random events and happenings, a jumble it might seem. but when viewed from the Other Side or with eyes of wisdom on this side, lo! it all comes together and you 'see' and comprehend the 'what' and the 'why', how everything worked together to produce the desired end result.

There are lessons being learned, slowly and methodically, as the apprentice learns his craft.

We came here precisely to learn those lessons, that best befit our spritual advancement.

The wondrous workings of spirit ...
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All this talk of religion, but it's how you live your life that is the all-important thing.
If you set out each day to do all the goodness and kindness that you can, and to do no harm to man or beast, then you are walking the highest path.
And when your time is up, if you can leave the earth a better place than you found it, then yours will have been a life well lived.

http://holy-lance.blogspot.com
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  #6  
Old 25-08-2014, 08:18 PM
LillyBelle LillyBelle is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: US
Posts: 964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prevail
When people, souls, incarnate they take with them a life plan. Well that is what some people picture. Your life plan will be executed and your guides will help you succeed and will also make certain that your life plan gets to work.

What I dont get is when you ask them as a human being for help in a certain way, they just dont help you in that way. Some would defend that they will help you in a more profound way than you as human can perceive.
Maybe there is also the possibility that the spirits in the world besides us are just as messed up as we and they cant do sh... or wont do sh. They are just as ignorant as us.

Think about it, you incarnate and you say that they help you unfold your plan in the way you have planned. They honour your wish above as soul creature, but when ur down below they help you, when u have asked, in a way you dont understand, so basically you are fooling yourself in saying that they will help you in your plan, but when it comes to human needs they only help u in a way that is best for you. How can someone know what is best for you? Especcially someone whos not a human, someone whos not bound by law and earthly things? You would disagree too, if you have lost your child and someone who has never had a child in his life said, that he feels your loss.

Are you grateful for the roads that are paved, before, after, or when you will never walk on it? Are you grateful that it rains in asia while you see your food crops shrink to nothing? Cause eventually earth will bring the rain from asia to your land?

And free will? Well if you are in the world besides us and decide what you want its your free will and they execute it, but when you are on earth and the same free will asks for something you dont get it because.... so do you have two different free wills?


Okay,do you maybe have guides and God/the Universe mixed up? You see a guide is there to guide you on your life path. They can only suggest things to you. Guides can't make you choose a certain path. If you refuse to listen to them well,that's what we call free will. I assure you your Guides have a much better picture of things than you do and are certainly not messed up. They do know the best road to travel,but can't make you do it.

Now,if you are speaking about God/the Universe whatever you wish to call it. He will bring you what you need and help you if you ask. However,it will be at the right time and way. You see,everything has a time. He will know when that is and will give you what you need,then. Now,understand that if you are asking for something you want,the answer may be "No" because it is not meant to be.
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  #7  
Old 06-09-2014, 08:34 PM
Lawlor
Posts: n/a
 
Hi, I can only speak from personal experience, but whenever I have contact with the Divine beings that guide me I am in awe of how much they know, how much they love me and how exceptionally attuned they are to what is best for us. Many of them will have lived hundreds of lives on earth and so know exactly what it is like to lose a child, probably many times over and so can identify with us completely. I can totally understand your doubts about their ability to help us, with the world the way it is and the calamities that can happen in our lives but I assure you the plan is there, beyond the comprehension of any single human mind. There are near infinite paths to take but they all lead to the same location and in this way none of us ever fail and all achieve our life purpose. Failure does not exist in any form for countless reasons so no matter what you do you always come back to God. There is no better path to walk, just longer and shorter, easier and harder, though that is in a single life rather than over the period of many lives because of the karmic forces. I think when we all get to the end result of mastery we will find it to be a completely fair destination and what with there being no time in the spirit world, technically took exactly the same amount of 'time' for all of us.
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  #8  
Old 12-10-2014, 08:51 PM
linen53 linen53 is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,143
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Miss Hepburn, I think you've got it right.

They are not at our beck and call to grant our wishes. Save that for I Dream of Jeannie. What you think you need and what they think you need are two different matters.
__________________
Deb

If you hit rock bottom, start picking up rocks.

By embracing my imperfections I am becoming perfect.

Itís through the cracks that the light gets in.
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  #9  
Old 14-10-2014, 06:10 PM
KevinO
Posts: n/a
 
I think you are already free. In this place freedom means one can anywhere in time and space and co-create with God anything imaginable.
You can employ others to help in this quest but it is not a moral quest IMO. There are no right or wrong answers, right or wrong paths, or a better way to do it because something else believes it.
Freedom is freedom and if you want it, be willing to look over anything and everything and understand it and be willing to move on. It is always your choice.
Of course that's my definition and since your path is your own, yours will likely differ.
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  #10  
Old 28-03-2015, 07:15 PM
PastPilot PastPilot is offline
Pathfinder
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: North America
Posts: 62
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If your life plan is to experience poverty, a life plan you chose with your guides help so you can understanding of all the facettes of being poor, so you may in future lives understand and empathize with the suffering of others living in poverty, how is wishing or begging your guides for riches going to help you on this life path?

In my life, I envision what I would like and then I ask my guides. If I do not receive what I ask for, I assume its because my life path may be in conflict with my wants. Its hard to say in my conscious state what my life path really may be.
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