what is bliss?

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Who said it is simple?

I said "If only Life was that simple!" Duh.

Originally Posted by jonesboy

It can take a long time to experience this stuff in practice and even longer to experience it in daily life. Having a solid system of practices can speed that process along.

Yah, it can take a long time to brainwash and so hypnotize oneself (or others!) into this or that 'world-view' to such an extent that one can shut out all 'contrary' experience. And yes, 'systems' of 'mental and spiritual' can indeed help that process along and, if and as they are persisted in, 'cement' it in place. Witness, the number of 'practicing' (lol) Torah, Bible, and Quran, and Veda 'following' Jesus, Christians, Muslims and Hindus in the world, not to mention those have been brainwashed or who have brainwashed themselves into believing that Aryans are 'superior' and the holocaust never happened by 'immersing' themselves in a 'solid' system of reinforcing literature, saying and 'like-minded' people.

Originally Posted by jonesboy

If you would like to discuss what being means I am more than happy to discuss it. Phases of being in daily life from the Witness to Rigpa etc.. How energy can be first experienced, moving towards ecstatic, full body to the realization that void=form.

No thanks. How could you even imagine I'd be interested in doing so? Can't you see from what I have said (I guess you can't!) that my 'aim' is to 'liberate' and immunize anyone with the potential to 'see' the light of (what I think is real truth) from remaining or becoming 'immersed' in said image-in-ed universe 'box'.

[davidsun]

Keep tuned everyone. You never know what kind of 'spectacle' may result from 'boy' encountering 'sun'! Not 'bliss' of course, but at the very least it should be entertaining 'fun'.

[WabiSabi]

Originally Posted by davidsun

I said "If only Life was that simple!" Duh.


Yah, it can take a long time to brainwash and so hypnotize oneself (or others!) into this or that 'world-view' to such an extent that one can shut out all 'contrary' experience. And yes, 'systems' of 'mental and spiritual' can indeed help that process along and, if and as they are persisted in, 'cement' it in place. Witness, the number of 'practicing' (lol) Torah, Bible, and Quran, and Veda 'following' Jesus, Christians, Muslims and Hindus in the world, not to mention those have been brainwashed or who have brainwashed themselves into believing that Aryans are 'superior' and the holocaust never happened by 'immersing' themselves in a 'solid' system of reinforcing literature, saying and 'like-minded' people.


No thanks. How could you even imagine I'd be interested in doing so? Can't you see from what I have said (I guess you can't!) that my 'aim' is to 'liberate' and immunize anyone with the potential to 'see' the light of (what I think is real truth) from remaining or becoming 'immersed' in said image-in-ed universe 'box'.

So basically, bliss may result from clarity but clarity is not the end of the road. I have been told time and time again that no matter what insight may be achieved, it must be released in order for true growth to occur. The Zen Mind is the Beginner's Mind and whatnot. This seems to parallel what you are speaking of.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by davidsun

I said "If only Life was that simple!" Duh.


Yah, it can take a long time to brainwash and so hypnotize oneself (or others!) into this or that 'world-view' to such an extent that one can shut out all 'contrary' experience. And yes, 'systems' of 'mental and spiritual' can indeed help that process along and, if and as they are persisted in, 'cement' it in place. Witness, the number of 'practicing' (lol) Torah, Bible, and Quran, and Veda 'following' Jesus, Christians, Muslims and Hindus in the world, not to mention those have been brainwashed or who have brainwashed themselves into believing that Aryans are 'superior' and the holocaust never happened by 'immersing' themselves in a 'solid' system of reinforcing literature, saying and 'like-minded' people.


No thanks. How could you even imagine I'd be interested in doing so? Can't you see from what I have said (I guess you can't!) that my 'aim' is to 'liberate' and immunize anyone with the potential to 'see' the light of (what I think is real truth) from remaining or becoming 'immersed' in said image-in-ed universe 'box'.

Interesting view.

So you believe everyone who does meditation and energy practices are basically deluding themselves. All the research that has ever been doing on the psychology benefits are just long time results of deluded people. Not to mention how dumb the Harvard scientist are for doing such tests.

I would disagree with such a view.

I have also found a lot of commonality among the various traditions. One just has to look.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

So you believe everyone who does meditation and energy practices are basically deluding themselves. All the research that has ever been doing on the psychology benefits are just long time results of deluded people. Not to mention how dumb the Harvard scientist are for doing such tests.

No. I think meditation adventures and and energy practices are great for de-conditioning one's 'self' from and gong past prior habits, limitations, etc. But I think people (you in this case) are susceptible to then just get into repeat the same old routines in this regard without realizing that they are thereby just imprisoning their 'selves' in another, albeit often bigger and more health conducive 'box' - they often become 'smugly' self-satisfied instead of continuing to be adventurously explore additional possibilities, creatively (re)solve 'greater' problems, and become more and more attnued and engaged with what Life is all (not just the Life in their 'new' 'corner') about.

My sense is that there a bunch of "blissed out because the believe that's their 'real' nature" ' junkies here, just as there are a bunch of "ecstatic because Jesus saved me" junkies and "Hot to become a martyr because that will get them ibnto 'paradise' where they'll have sex with 70 virgins" junkies elsewhere. My question/challenge to all such would be Can you really 'groove' with, enjoy and practically serve and enjoy serving the practical needs of animals and people around you who alive but different from you (instead of just wanting and inviting them to 'join' and walk with you in your way Life? Do you both curiously and humorously (unpompously) enjoy having meaningful conversations with different others, from the 'least' to the 'greatest', who you cross paths with you, or are you into a mono-cultural socialization, getting people into your 'trip'? Etc., etc. etc.

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I would disagree with such a view.

I would expect nothing less from a person who 'came on' in the way you did in the first post of yours that I responded to.

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I have also found a lot of commonality among the various traditions. One just has to look.

So have I, and though I have gratefully taken whatever I thought and felt was the best in them, I have gone past every one of them and keep on going, past even whatever may have been 'traditional' for me as of a months or even weeks ago. The journey never ends, Bro. Another example of what I am talking about: the one who posts under the screen name 'naturesflow'. I am ever on-flowing - which is what I think eternal Life really means, not eternally sitting around in 'bliss' or any other 'state' of mind and spirit which would be 'the death' of my ever adventurousness, I think.

Though they may indeed have been 'advances' when they were first started, 'traditions' (of the 'formal' kind) are for those who enjoy zombying (not really seeing with 'fresh' eyes all the time - as WabiSabi bell-rang above) as a relief from the uncertainties and changes in flow which are experiences as stressful - IMO, that is.

[Gem]

................ something went wrong there.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by running

yep and yes.

Yeah, I'm having a break from these forums for a while (for a month or so) and all of this 'spiritual/philosophical' discussion and going to meditate, worship God and learn the rest of the Shiva Stuthis and Ashtakams by heart, that I only ever got half-way through in my youth (and still recall what I learned, but get frustrated that I need to stop half-way because that's as far as I got).

Just reading all of this thread...other threads...it's all a game of 'one-upmanship' that I cannot be bothered playing anymore because I honestly 'know better than that'.

Speaking with others about spiritual issues...trying to communicate in any way whatsoever, is like bashing my head against a brick wall, when I am forever faced with "you are wrong and I am right" and as soon as I ask "what makes me wrong and you right then?" I get "I don't have to explain why or justify my position to you" and I'm like "yeah...you kinda do, if you're going to make baseless assertions like that"....and then, the whole conversation stalls and I get placed on yet another ignore list.

These are the 'conversation killers' and I see them on here...people trying to talk with others, only to have the other say "and what would you know about it?" when they have already said what they know about it...

I need a break from all this nonsense, because I know that I deserve more than what I get from here a lot of the time...I won't say all the time, because occasionally I will get a nice 'gem of wisdom' or helped by another who doesn't have their own personal agenda behind it...but it gets frustrating to have to sit and sift through all the rubbish to find it...and it's getting much worse.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Bliss is a result of clarity.

If in meditation you strive for bliss you will not find it.

If in life you strive for bliss you will not find it.

Just like in meditation, with true being.. bliss arises. The same with daily life. The more one is present, the more bliss one experiences.

Bliss and ones natural state are one and the same.

Describe this bliss as you experience it?

Can you give us a descriptive feeling and sensation of it?

[running]

Originally Posted by davidsun

I said "If only Life was that simple!" Duh.


Yah, it can take a long time to brainwash and so hypnotize oneself (or others!) into this or that 'world-view' to such an extent that one can shut out all 'contrary' experience. And yes, 'systems' of 'mental and spiritual' can indeed help that process along and, if and as they are persisted in, 'cement' it in place. Witness, the number of 'practicing' (lol) Torah, Bible, and Quran, and Veda 'following' Jesus, Christians, Muslims and Hindus in the world, not to mention those have been brainwashed or who have brainwashed themselves into believing that Aryans are 'superior' and the holocaust never happened by 'immersing' themselves in a 'solid' system of reinforcing literature, saying and 'like-minded' people.


No thanks. How could you even imagine I'd be interested in doing so? Can't you see from what I have said (I guess you can't!) that my 'aim' is to 'liberate' and immunize anyone with the potential to 'see' the light of (what I think is real truth) from remaining or becoming 'immersed' in said image-in-ed universe 'box'.

you seem confused about the topic. as i mentioned to you previously in this thread at least once. bliss is not the product of the mind or emotional body.

im not sure what your intention is. but perhaps rather than say things that dont make any sense. ask some questions if you dont know or understand. to just say random things for the sake of argument is a waste imo.

[naturesflow]

Characteristics of True Nature

The first quality of true nature is that it is inseparable from awareness. Our true nature is inherently aware. This is the fact of luminosity, the fact of light, the fact of consciousness. We know this because when we experience any of the essential manifestations, we recognize that Being is inseparable from some kind of awareness, sensitivity, in-touchness, or consciousness. Awareness is not something in addition to true nature; it is an inherent and inseparable characteristic of true nature, the way heat is inherent in and inseparable from fire. The second characteristic of true reality is that this field of awareness, this field of presence, is pervasive and infinite, and includes everything within it. In fact, it is a oneness, an indivisible unity. This is similar to the Buddhist notion of the “wisdom of equality or evenness.” The fact that there are patterns within the field does not mean there are discrete objects… The field is all one consciousness with different patterns in different places. So the entire soul is unitary as well. When we recognize true nature and we lose the sense of boundaries, we recognize that oneness pervades the whole universe. God has one mind. The third characteristic is that true nature is dynamic. Reality is moving and changing all the time. This is obvious when you notice that your perception of your inner experience – or of the whole world – is not a snapshot; it is a movie. It is inherently in a constant state of change and transformation. It is not a static presence. This is related the Buddhist notion of the “all-accomplishing wisdom.” Reality is a dynamic presence that is always changing through shifts in the manifest patterns. In fact, the presence of change is implicit in the fact of awareness; without it, there is no awareness. The openness of true nature is its fourth characteristic. Openness means an infinite number of possibilities – open to be anything, open to manifest as anything, unlimited in its potential. This is the indeterminacy and inexhaustibility that we discussed in the last chapter. Reality is always changing because its true nature is completely open. This is the space dimension of our Being: when you recognize true nature, you find it to be spacious. In other words spaciousness is inherent in the presence that is true nature. The whole universe is a deep mysterious nothingness, openness, lightness, and complete absence of any heaviness. And this very mysterious, delicate spaciousness has a luminosity inherent in it, a glimmer, a radiance that gives it awareness of itself. The fifth major characteristic of true nature is that it is not only awareness, oneness, dynamism, and openness, but also knowingness. This is similar to the Buddhist notion of the “wisdom of discrimination,” or the discriminating awareness of the Buddha. It is inherent to essential presence that it is not only awareness of presence but simultaneously the discrimination of the particular quality of presence, such as Compassion or Peace. This knowingness is inherent to presence, inherent to the awareness of presence.

Spacecruiser Inquiry, p. 32 http://www.ahalmaas.com/glossary/true-nature