Men and Sex - help :(

[Hadarian]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

It is surprising that he's been unwilling to reveal his image or talk (on the phone presumably).

He's sent me two pictures, but they are several years old. He has seen me on webcam and, of course, in up-to-date pictures.

As an aside, just my view: in this day and age when sex is quite important in a relationship
there's quite a risk for you and a guy going into marriage with no experience
of each other.

You don't have to have sexual intercourse with someone to know to what extent you are sexually compatible.

And just because I only want to share the most intimate act a human can do with another human with just one other person in my lifetime doesn't mean it is not important--on the contrary, it becomes not important when you do it with many.

Research has also shown that the fewer sexual partners a woman has had prior to marriage, the more successful and less likely the marriage is to fail. Unfortunately they did not do a similar study for men.

[figaromelting]

I know, but I'm at a loss as to why I have this issue. I am almost considering past life trauma, because I honestly have had issues with sex since I was very young and I don't remember anything happening to me ever that could have caused this problem. And I don't know squat about past lives--I never even used to believe in them, much less remember any. I have accepted the concept as possible, but I still don't have any clue about them.

I'd say to focus on trauma from this life...if you look at your life as a timeline there has to be a starting point for any trauma that you currently have, an initial sensitising event. Perhaps it was something really early in life that has been repressed in your unconscious...those types of behaviors have a way of showing themselves in your present behavior and the people you attract can be a mirror for that trauma. I kept attracting people like my parents for example because I had an unhealed inner child within me that wanted to be loved!

Also, sexual problems are very normal it's just that no one talks about it because they fear that they will be judged...you just have to peel back the layers of the onion but it's your responsibility to do so, working on that before you step into a relationship is important!

P.S I'm not implying that you are the problem here, I'm just responding to what you said about trauma as that's the part that you feel holds you back possibly

[Delsol]

For you, the sex thing may seem paramount, but sincerely - as an intuitive outside reader - it feels more likely he is hiding who he actually is, and that alone is why he doesn't wish to meet you.

It is easy to be loving and caring online - and without doubt, many people have been nurtured and supported via strangers on the web - but online relationships are like the Velvetine Rabbit; they are limited, and though they may seem warm and fuzzy and full of potential if not downright magical and mindblowing, there is a fantasy element to them until the next level is reached (i.e. meeting in 'real' life). Sometimes that fantasy element really is an illusion; based only on a person's ability to fool you, for whatever reason, we cannot know. People will go far in propagating illusions; will use false photos, pretend names, etc. Some sweet, though perhaps insecure souls, have been fooled by such people for years.

Do not feel bad about yourself over this. Sex is a detail. It is important, sure, but a good guy knows we are humans, not monkeys, and will follow your lead. If this guy is legit, and as good as you believe him to be, he would not turn you away like this, using lust as an excuse. Honestly, that logic is just bananas. If he loves you, he would jump at the chance just to share a meal and do all he could to make you comfortable while sharing more of himself. The more I think about it, and the tone of your post (i.e. thinking there is something wrong with YOU or all men because of this sex thing) the more irritated I feel. That is total bunk. By asking to meet, you have called his bluff. Perhaps it is nothing more than that. That is enough. Best wishes...

Originally Posted by Hadarian

He's sent me two pictures, but they are several years old. He has seen me on webcam and, of course, in up-to-date pictures.


You don't have to have sexual intercourse with someone to know to what extent you are sexually compatible.

And just because I only want to share the most intimate act a human can do with another human with just one other person in my lifetime doesn't mean it is not important--on the contrary, it becomes not important when you do it with many.

Research has also shown that the fewer sexual partners a woman has had prior to marriage, the more successful and less likely the marriage is to fail. Unfortunately they did not do a similar study for men.

Quite. There's absolutely nothing wrong with your insistence, as I said.

It's true you don't have to have sexual intercourse with someone to know to what extent you'll be compatible at sexual intercourse - it's probably enough to know both are hetero and like the look of each other. Compatibility in a relationship is a different matter. I suppose they could talk, find out if they have similar proclivities. There are plenty of stories, some funny, some sad, where things haven't quite worked out as hoped. Very sad when it happens some way into a marriage.
Because, the fact remains that it is a risk....simply because people's sexual preferences change as they explore their sensuality.


Anyway, your post effectively told that the man has presented a new condition to meeting in conflict with your hopes. So really it's up to you as you know.

Originally Posted by LuckDragon

I'd say to focus on trauma from this life...if you look at your life as a timeline there has to be a starting point for any trauma that you currently have, an initial sensitising event. Perhaps it was something really early in life that has been repressed in your unconscious...those types of behaviors have a way of showing themselves in your present behavior and the people you attract can be a mirror for that trauma. I kept attracting people like my parents for example because I had an unhealed inner child within me that wanted to be loved!

It may not be a trauma... could be the atmosphere in which someone is brought up, the demonstrativeness of parents; religion, censure at school; a worry about one's sensuality gleaned from observations of others.

But this would assume it's a problem which it doesn't seem to be. Not even one of self-confidence. Just someone being themselves, looking at Hadarian's response to my earlier post. Acute disappointment because a bloke has changed the course of a growing understanding.

One hopes that Hadarian is able to steer the thing back or withdraw without difficulty

.....

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Hadarian

I am broken again. I was just told by a man I've been writing online with for almost 6 months that he does not want to meet me in person unless he knows I will allow him to have sex with me.

Being rejected does not mean you are broken, though a broken heart can feel that way for a time.

That particular person is not the right partner for you at this time (possibly ever). Some parts of 'dating' suck, this is one of them. Nothing to do but grieve for a short wile and move on.

Originally Posted by Hadarian

I make it clear up front all the time with men that I do not and will not engage in sexual intercourse unless I am married*.

The problem is that this sex issue has plagued me my whole adult life--it's what men want and it's what I don't want to give them unless under the circumstances in which I feel safe doing so. It's not debatable. Sexual intercourse is huge for me. It's just that it has blown up into something so much bigger than it ought to be even for me and I have begun to wonder if there is any man anywhere, granted who I would be attracted to too, who would ever actually find enough value in me to agree to have and develop a relationship with me on my terms.

Your post does not make it clear if he wanted sex on the first physical meeting or was he just making sure you were open to sex at some point? If having sex is one of those deal breaker things for him, it is right of him to ask. That does not mean he is right to pressure you to get it.

----
(a bit harsh so read with caution) I am struck by this ultimatum you hold over men's heads. Seems like you want to feel safe, yet you are holding men to the standard of being your husband. I know that would not play well for me. So why not ask for what you want? If its marriage you are really wanting then be straight about that and don't use 'sex' as a bartering tool.

[Kekova]

If you do end up meeting this guy, please do so in a public place, as others have mentioned, and watch your food/drink, whether or not you are drinking alcohol. I have met several men with whom I communicated through dating apps. Generally speaking, our first meeting is somewhere public, and then if we're mutually interested it can progress from there. I do have to say that it's odd that he seems to be purposely hiding his appearance. Best case scenario is he's simply unattractive. Worse-case is that he is married or in a relationship, and is hiding his identity for this reason. Onto the more important issue, which is your commitment to waiting until marriage for sex. Obviously I don't know this guy, and I haven't seen your msgs to one another. However, it sounds to me like he is trying to guilt you into having sex, which shows that he does not respect your values/ boundaries, and by extension does not respect you. I know you feel like you've already invested time and emotional attachment into this relationship, but it may be better to just cut your losses and look elsewhere. You deserve to find someone who respects you and supports your convictions, and is interested in getting to know you before bringing sex into the relationship. Best of luck!

[Hadarian]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

It's true you don't have to have sexual intercourse with someone to know to what extent you'll be compatible at sexual intercourse - it's probably enough to know both are hetero and like the look of each other.

Maybe, but there are also plenty of other ways to explore sexual compatibility without going all the way to IRL sexual intercourse per se.

Compatibility in a relationship is a different matter. I suppose they could talk, find out if they have similar proclivities. There are plenty of stories, some funny, some sad, where things haven't quite worked out as hoped. Very sad when it happens some way into a marriage.

I think sexual activities specifically curtail the discovery of other forms of compatibility and cloud judgment, wisdom and emotions of both the man and the woman. I think in order for men to grow emotional affection and love, they need to be told no to sex, and, in my relatively limited experience, even just sex talk curtails the process of getting to know one another. Somehow, as soon as the subject of sex is breached, the man no longer seems able to focus or think about any other subject in the relationship for any meaningful amount of time. At least that is what has happened in my experiences. I bet more self-aware and spiritual men would be a lot easier to be in a relationship with though - I wouldn't know.
´
@Delsol Precisely. I don't believe in such a thing as online love. I tried it twice and learned it was just a dream and that you really just end up filling in all the blanks about the person on the other end in your imagination and then when you meet in person, you may be in for a rude awakening--and that's WITH seeing them on webcam and talking on the phone and EVERYTHING. I explained all of that to this guy and told him of previous devastating online experiences that I had had and I told him this many times right from the start, and also yesterday when he wanted me to tell him I would let him be physically intimate with me upon our first meeting.

That particular person is not the right partner for you at this time (possibly ever). Some parts of 'dating' suck, this is one of them. Nothing to do but grieve for a short wile and move on.

Perfect. And that is precisely what I have concluded and am doing.

Your post does not make it clear if he wanted sex on the first physical meeting or was he just making sure you were open to sex at some point? If having sex is one of those deal breaker things for him, it is right of him to ask.

Well, it wasn't clear if he wanted "all-the-way" sex or just to be allowed to touch me above the waist, but at the end of the day, I couldn't tell him yes, specifically because I have never even seen a recent photo of him, let alone met him in person. Chances are I would have allowed a certain amount, but since he was unbending and unwilling to meet without having a green light before I even got to meet him in person, I just couldn't say yes.

(a bit harsh so read with caution) I am struck by this ultimatum you hold over men's heads. Seems like you want to feel safe, yet you are holding men to the standard of being your husband. I know that would not play well for me. So why not ask for what you want? If its marriage you are really wanting then be straight about that and don't use 'sex' as a bartering tool.

I've been accused of this in the past (I think I've heard all the responses by now), but what has happened is that the man, who wants sex from me, he has his own agenda with me, turns the tables around on me and accuses me of what he is actually doing. He turns sex into a bartering chip, because I don't want to give him sex and actually that's all he ultimately wanted from me. I am setting boundaries and forcing the man to meet a requirement which will force him to get to know me on a platonic level or bugger off and leave me alone, because that is precisely what I want--him to leave me alone. It is a good way to get rid of those men. Men who I would actually WANT to marry, who I would deem worthy, would not have a problem with that boundary and we could proceed with an agenda-free NORMAL conversation. The kind that I actually had with this guy for several months.

Sex is seen as a hobby, a skill, a game. Or, in the past-time of sex, sex is ... like skiing for example, and the "other" man or woman is like the skis and poles. Sex has become a social convention which has resulted in the objectification of both men and women.

I approach sex from a completely different paradigm, wherein I don't care about sex as a thing in and of itself, like people do, I care only about the man I do it with and I will take my sweet time to choose him. I no more want to allow myself to be used as a piece of sports gear than I want to use a man as a piece of sports gear. It is degrading and belittles the noble character of a human. That's my very unpopular perspective on it.

Originally Posted by Hadarian

Maybe, but there are also plenty of other ways to explore sexual compatibility without going all the way to IRL sexual intercourse per se.

I'd be interested to learn of your views on this. I agree there are ways but I'm guessing
their viability must depend on one's experience. You can't imagine or talk
about anything experiential if you haven't experienced it except in the abstract.
Fact is, most people (given their orientation) are sexually compatible provided the male
(or male counterpart) can be stimulated (and that doesn't guarantee they'll be able to
"do it" when the time comes either, be assured) but, I'm sure you
appreciate, there's a great deal more to sex than "sexual intercourse".

I mean, like, what if either you or your man are basically compatible but one
turns out to have a voracious appetite that the other can't cope with? Ot that the partner,
naive at the outset starts to explore experiences that the other finds objectionable?

I'm not vastly experienced so I still sometimes get it wrong. So any advice would be welcome and thank you if so.

....

[Clover]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

I mean, like, what if either you or your man are basically compatible but one
turns out to have a voracious appetite that the other can't cope with? Ot that the partner,
naive at the outset starts to explore experiences that the other finds objectionable?

I'm not vastly experienced so I still sometimes get it wrong. So any advice would be welcome and thank you if so.

....

I think Lorelym poses very sound and realistic questions to contemplate (throughout the thread). She's on point for the most part.

I can't phantom the idea of putting the pressure of marriage on someone, especially for sex. Marriage is a HUGE responsibility, It's miles and beyond sitting behind a computer with a fantasy. Forget marriage, try living with a male first, and see how it will change your entire outlook and perception on the human species(mild sarcasm,heh). There is a divorce thread going on in this section, read their stories. I can't even post my story because of how painful the memories are.

There are a lot of really great guys out there. I am from the conservative MidWest, we have plenty of gentlemen here.. I don't think online is the best place to seek a partner unless your at a closer proximity to acutualy build a more trustworthy and stable relationship..
Or, I'd unplug from the internet all together,imo