Debate with Buddhism Teacher

[RyanWind]

Originally Posted by CSEe

perhaps you realize that is the knowledge that you hold .....

I'm just sitting here not really thinking about anything. I suppose I could think about something. Use the knowledge I hold. I'd rather just sit here I think. Empty.

Your post seems to be saying I'm doing something wrong, or seeing something wrong. That right? Everyone has beliefs and opinions. I'd rather not think about them. Mine or yours.

[mulyo13]

No one in the spiritual world especially a spiritual teacher wants to debate. Also not all of them want to discuss, because words can't define the exact meaning.

Debate is about to prove who win or lose, who right or wrong. I'm not listening your words, and you not listening my words. I give all fact and opinion to prove I'm right and you wrong. Same goes to you.
Moderator only keep the debate on the topic.
There's something can be learn from a debate, but if only that person is losing and will admit that he is wrong. If the person not admit and can't accept it, it will becomes hatred.
The person who win and all the people agree that he is right, he learn nothing. He only add his ego bigger(ego +100).
A person who win a debate, doesn't mean that he is right. For me, debate is an art language. Art, because how you play and manipulate words and fact for winning.

You can read it from vinaya pitaka. It's about monk/monastic rules. Or from Buddhism sila.
Try understand what is the reason and the purpose behind a rule.

[Eyeland]

Originally Posted by mulyo13

No one in the spiritual world especially a spiritual teacher wants to debate. Also not all of them want to discuss, because words can't define the exact meaning.

Debate is about to prove who win or lose, who right or wrong. I'm not listening your words, and you not listening my words. I give all fact and opinion to prove I'm right and you wrong. Same goes to you.
Moderator only keep the debate on the topic.
There's something can be learn from a debate, but if only that person is losing and will admit that he is wrong. If the person not admit and can't accept it, it will becomes hatred.
The person who win and all the people agree that he is right, he learn nothing. He only add his ego bigger(ego +100).
A person who win a debate, doesn't mean that he is right. For me, debate is an art language. Art, because how you play and manipulate words and fact for winning.

You can read it from vinaya pitaka. It's about monk/monastic rules. Or from Buddhism sila.
Try understand what is the reason and the purpose behind a rule.

A truly beautiful post :)

[sky]

Debating, the formal arguing or discussion of a thesis before an audience, has a long and distinguished history in Buddhism beginning with the Buddha himself. In text like the Sutta Nipata of the Pali Tipitaka, the Buddha says that the true monk argues with no one and keeps away from public debates. But in many other works in the Tipitaka he is portrayed as a vigorous and successful debater.

I surpose it depends on the reason for debating, do we do it out of compassion to help others understand or is it our ego to try and prove we are correct....

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by VinceField

CSEe

An important aspect of Buddhism is letting go of our personal stories and identifications. You seem to have yours firmly in place. A "thicket of views" if you will.

Hi VinceField , thanks for joining .....perhaps I could agree with you because that is how you "invite" me into your mind....perhaps "my" identifications or stories is just a condition that reflect own emotion .....

Perhaps in Buddhism " letting go" just like a process of " forgetting"....but in human culture , if one try to forget it seems he just keep on remembering .....so " letting go" is not something one could plan or practices but in Buddhism is by a process of realization .....so can you tell me how you "let go" ?

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

I'm just sitting here not really thinking about anything. I suppose I could think about something. Use the knowledge I hold. I'd rather just sit here I think. Empty.

Your post seems to be saying I'm doing something wrong, or seeing something wrong. That right? Everyone has beliefs and opinions. I'd rather not think about them. Mine or yours.

Hi RyanWind ....let me explain my current mind of Buddhism .

If you pour a spoon of sand into a glass of water and you stir the water .... as you stir the hand , the spoon , the water and the sand will moves ... the faster you stir , the faster all will travel ... but regardless how fast or how hard you stir , there is a natural process that the sand , the water , the spoon and the hand is settling down / trying to stop and as you stop stirring , the sand will sink to the bottom , water will be clear again .....so in my current mind of Buddhism ....the glass , the sand , the spoon , the water , the hand is all condition .... the action of stirring water is thinking ... the will to stir is emotion that is you and the natural process of settling down is Buddhism .......so Buddhism is natural ...is never something out of emotion but is a process leading to freedom of emotion

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by mulyo13

No one in the spiritual world especially a spiritual teacher wants to debate. Also not all of them want to discuss, because words can't define the exact meaning.

But....it sometimes apparent all of them is eager to teach.....

Debate is about to prove who win or lose, who right or wrong. I'm not listening your words, and you not listening my words. I give all fact and opinion to prove I'm right and you wrong. Same goes to you.

Moderator only keep the debate on the topic.
There's something can be learn from a debate, but if only that person is losing and will admit that he is wrong. If the person not admit and can't accept it, it will becomes hatred.
The person who win and all the people agree that he is right, he learn nothing. He only add his ego bigger(ego +100).
A person who win a debate, doesn't mean that he is right. For me, debate is an art language. Art, because how you play and manipulate words and fact for winning.

You can read it from vinaya pitaka. It's about monk/monastic rules. Or from Buddhism sila.
Try understand what is the reason and the purpose behind a rule.

If you refer to current culture , yes that is true but to me debate pushes me into realization even factor of realization ...in Buddhism , I debate not to state right or wrong as in Buddhism as what currently in my mind there is no right verses wrong ... no true verses false and no good verses bad ......all happening / all existence / all nature is all same great factor of realization .

[sky]

CSEe.. how can you get freedom from emotions ?

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by sky123

Debating, the formal arguing or discussion of a thesis before an audience, has a long and distinguished history in Buddhism beginning with the Buddha himself. In text like the Sutta Nipata of the Pali Tipitaka, the Buddha says that the true monk argues with no one and keeps away from public debates. But in many other works in the Tipitaka he is portrayed as a vigorous and successful debater.

I surpose it depends on the reason for debating, do we do it out of compassion to help others understand or is it our ego to try and prove we are correct....

For more than 10 years I am actively posting in internet and have reasons to say that most if not all Buddhism teacher that I had communicated are all eager to teach me .....they just wanting me to follow their faith . There was a monk told me of a story ...a professor who is eager to learn Buddhism and a Buddhism Master .

One day , a professor go up a hill to look for a Buddhism teacher , as they met , the professor start asking questions ... and the Buddhism Master is serving him tea ..... and the Buddhism teacher keep pouring the tea until it overflow ... the professor puzzled and ask him to stop ... The Buddhism teacher explained to the professor that the professor mind is already full and cant be filled anymore ... just like the cup ....

In fact monk is trying to describe my mind to me ... but I told the monk , to me is the Buddhism teacher mind not only full but is overflow........as one awaken to Buddhism , he is constantly in condition of learning never have reason of teaching ..................so I debate not to prove I am right but rather to challenge my mind .... as the more I challenge it , the mind will reducing ..........therefore debate in Buddhism to me is totally opposite from what in current human culture

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by sky123

CSEe.. how can you get freedom from emotions ?

In my current mind ......no one can " get freedom from emotion"...not even Mr Siddharta himself ........but as one awaken to Buddhism , one will just live with the life instead of filling in the life ........as one journey into this path , he realize he is emotion and no longer holding on to the emotion ... as one awaken to this , all emotion will gradually and naturally forgotten ... one will experience something that perhaps could be closer known as bliss / joy / ease ........as he no longer carrying the burden of emotion ... Buddhism is a natural process .....and if one awaken to this , one will never resist it and just flowing with it ......so forget your plan to be someone , just living the moment as no one ......