Questioning to whether AP and LD are the same..

[Astral Explorer]

Originally Posted by VinceField

Hmm, well I didn't say it was more about the body than the dimension, so perhaps you misunderstood.

I believe that the body of any given dimension, whether it is a physical body or subtle nonphysical energy body, is simply the vehicle for our consciousness, a vehicle which is an aspect of that dimension rather than something separate from it, made up of the very energetic essence of that dimension and endowed with our particular focal point of awareness. I don't see bodies being a product of the environment so much as I see them as being an aspect of the environment, just as each individual tree is a part of the forest, just as each molecule of water is part of the ocean. I don't see environments producing bodies, I see both environments and bodies being aspects of a larger field of consciousness, interconnected rather than one giving rise to another.

My point was that the energy body experienced in OBEs is limited to it's resonant dimension. If consciousness goes lower in the dimensional spectrum it will find itself back in the physical body, and it is only in that physical body that one can experience the physical dimension. If it goes higher it will find itself in the astral or mental bodies.



Right. Again, not sure how this relates to what I said, but I don't disagree. Although I'm not sure what you mean by "parallel-Earth dimensions" but I don't think I was referring to anything of this nature.



Again, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "less dense parallel-Earth dimensions," but it seems that the term "parallel" would entail the same type of physical experience that we experience here in this physical dimension, more like a parallel universe, a parallel Earth with different versions of ourselves. I haven't experienced this so I can't comment.

I wasn't really disagreeing with you in general was just saying how I personally view other "bodies" we experience and the dimensions in which they exist. As far as parallel-Earth dimensions I am talking about the dimension that most projectors find themselves in usually in the earlier days of their projecting. I am sure you've began a projection in a room that looks just like the room your physical body is in and so forth. Or you've visited areas that look similar and/or the same as they do in our physical dimension even though they are in another dimension, these are the parallel-Earth dimensions and I have found there are several of them.

Originally Posted by baro-san

I call OBE only that specific experience in which you conscientiously feel rising from your body, in slow motion, in the room in which you fell asleep. There is that unmistakable feeling of raising from your horizontal and floating in the direction you intend, going through the wall, or ceiling of your room, experiencing the density and seeing the texture of the material you're crossing through. If you experienced it you know what I'm trying to describe. The perception of the environment is very close to the physical environment, although not identical. You may or may not see yourself in the bed. I experienced even seeing myself in the bed, and at the same time seeing my projection in the room from my bed. An unforgettable feeling.

The feeling you're describing is a bi-product and/or side-effect/symptom of your consciousness shifting into another body and dimension. The room looks the same as your room in the physical dimension because you're in a parallel-Earth dimension that replicates our physical dimension in appearance to a certain extent. You're either in your physical body and the physical dimension or another body and another dimension, there is no "astral" body moving through a wall that exists in the physical dimension and so forth. The room looks the same because it's a parallel dimension and you're able to go through the wall and rise up in slow motion and so forth because of the fact you're in another dimension and another body. I know exactly what you're describing as it's incredibly common in the beginning phases of projecting for most people but I can assure you what you're seeing is not the physical dimension, even in the instance where you believe you saw your body. The belief and/or desire to see your body likely manifested an image of a body, or the most common and likely answer is that the body you saw was not your body. It was the body of another being who was laying in the bed your projection began in. Either way what you saw wasn't your physical body because your physical body exists in the physical dimension and you were not in the physical dimension. Something I learned much later in my projecting is that many of the bodies we dream and project in are not lifeless shells that spring to life when we shift into them. In fact they are bodies living a life in their dimension similar in many aspects to how we live in this dimension. Those lives include family, friends, lovers, pets, jobs, hobbies, etc. So the body you saw in a bed could of very well been a friend or lover of the body you shifted into.

There's also something else that dreamers and projectors will likely experience that is called "Triporting" in these other dimensions which is where a typically invisible being will guide you into the body of another willing being. It's called Triporting because it involves you, the body of a willing being, and the third being that is often called a "facilitator." The exact rules about how this works are unfortunately unclear at this point but it is clear that the body we go into agrees to let us in their body for that experience and they get to witness and/or experience what we experience in that body, this typically happens in the lower-vibrational dimensions and I'm assuming beings do it to experience higher-vibrational beings and so forth. In the higher-vibrational realms they will attach themselves to your hands and/or feet and will get to experience your experiences and so forth that way, whether or not they allow Triporting in those realms or it is even possible I cannot say. It's a lesson to them as it is to the Human participant, exactly what the facilitators get out of it I'm not really sure. Through Triporting you can experience bodies of many different species of beings and so forth. I've been in at least 5-6 distinct different species of bodies at this point and more different bodies than I can even count. I personally Triported into both male and female, all ages, and more races than I even know. Unfortunately there isn't a mirror always around so I don't get to always look at them, not to mention most beings that exist in parallel-Earth dimensions tend to wear a Human-disguise. Not sure why they do it but it's clear to me the beings who live there can easily tell what species another being is, as astral projectors unfortunately we cannot. Through Triporting I have been in the bodies and/or met beings from Sirius and Alpha Centauri B, I have met more just didn't get specifics about them. I have met several different species of Dracos as well, the most common Draco species I come into contact with are called "Island Dracos."

[VinceField]

Originally Posted by Astral Explorer

I wasn't really disagreeing with you in general was just saying how I personally view other "bodies" we experience and the dimensions in which they exist.

Ok, I got you.

As far as parallel-Earth dimensions I am talking about the dimension that most projectors find themselves in usually in the earlier days of their projecting. I am sure you've began a projection in a room that looks just like the room your physical body is in and so forth. Or you've visited areas that look similar and/or the same as they do in our physical dimension even though they are in another dimension, these are the parallel-Earth dimensions and I have found there are several of them.

Cool. Again, the general consensus as verified by my own experience is that the dimension most resembling our physical world is the nonphysical dimension closest in resonance to the physical realm, and yes, this is where most new projectors find themselves. It is essentially a nonphysical energetic copy of the physical world. This is most commonly referred to as "The Real Time Zone."

I think using the term "parallel Earth" gives the connotation that you are speaking of another version of earth in an alternate physical universe, when we are actually talking about energetic structures and environments consisting of nonphysical energetic reflections of consciousness from both in the physical dimension the nonphysical dimensions higher in the spectrum of this particular system of reality.

Many of the astral dimensions also resemble Earth in that there is usually land, oceans, skies, architecture, nature, etc, although I'd be weary of referring to these realms as "parallel Earth dimensions," as while these dimensions could be viewed as "parallel" to earth in the sense that they occupy the same space but are simply vibrating at a higher frequency, the term may be a bit misleading, as it is used to describe something very different in the media and sciences.

Anyway, it's all good my friend. Glad to see another experienced projector around. How long have you been exploring for?

Take care

[Astral Explorer]

Originally Posted by VinceField

Ok, I got you.



Cool. Again, the general consensus as verified by my own experience is that the dimension most resembling our physical world is the nonphysical dimension closest in resonance to the physical realm, and yes, this is where most new projectors find themselves. It is essentially a nonphysical energetic copy of the physical world. This is most commonly referred to as "The Real Time Zone."

I think using the term "parallel Earth" gives the connotation that you are speaking of another version of earth in an alternate physical universe, when we are actually talking about energetic structures and environments consisting of nonphysical energetic reflections of consciousness from both in the physical dimension the nonphysical dimensions higher in the spectrum of this particular system of reality.

Many of the astral dimensions also resemble Earth in that there is usually land, oceans, skies, architecture, nature, etc, although I'd be weary of referring to these realms as "parallel Earth dimensions," as while these dimensions could be viewed as "parallel" to earth in the sense that they occupy the same space but are simply vibrating at a higher frequency, the term may be a bit misleading, as it is used to describe something very different in the media and sciences.

Anyway, it's all good my friend. Glad to see another experienced projector around. How long have you been exploring for?

Take care

In my opinion the dimensions that resemble Earth not as in they are a watery planet with green land and so forth, but the dimensions that look similar and/or the same as the space they overlap technically speaking are parallel dimensions since they overlap one another. I do not believe a high-vibrational Earth-dimension exists honestly as all of the ones I have experienced were generally speaking around the vibration of our physical dimension, some of them maybe slightly lower. In the dimensions I am speaking it is another version of Earth, but it is still Earth just in another dimension. In those dimensions they have time, a calendar, locations no differently than we do and nearly everything else. The only real differences I have experienced in the parallel-Earth dimensions are the densities and the power of thought. The beings living in these dimensions are living in bodies no differently than we do in the physical dimension, but due to the slightly different density of the environment their bodies act and react differently in many senses than ours do. To give a brief example one time during a projection I was flopped down on a bench and sat there really lethargic-like for probably 10-15 minutes, when I tried to get up the skin on the back of my legs and butt had formed sort of like a pile of goo would as it flattened onto the bench and was sticking to it. I had to have a couple other beings peel me off of the bench and in the process of doing so the body I was in was slightly bleeding. They even made jokes about me not being very mobile and I told them I was moving at "turtle's pace" we all had a good laugh about that.

This is something most projectors are oblivious to is that in these dimensions they are actually in a body, yes the body is less dense and not exactly the same as a physical body but it is still a body nonetheless. It lives and dies just as a physical body does but death to them is not as severe to them as it is to us, whether or not that is because murder is so common in these realms or because their meaning of death is not the same as ours I cannot say. But I have witnessed with my own eyes a being actually die in these dimensions, bleeding on the other hand is something I have viewed hundreds of times from many different species of beings. And this is why I call these specific dimensions parallel-Earth dimensions. Because they overlap the same Earth-space as our physical dimension, they exist on Earth just in another dimension, and beings are living and dying just as we are in our dimension. There are many different dimensions on Earth all of them meant to keep us and them locked up into a system of birth and re-birth, death and reincarnation. The "Archons" or as Thoth called them "The Lords of Arulu" have created this system very well and it is extremely efficient in keeping us trapped inside of it once we're in. I have been projecting for around 6-7 years now consciously, before I knew what astral projection was I had been having projections since I was in the latter of my childhood days. I have been dreaming and lucid-dreaming for as long as I can remember as well. I just believed what my parents told me that dreams were just "dreams" as they say and it wasn't until around 6-7 years ago that I started to learn the truth about them.

[VinceField]

I'd be cautious about assigning any strong significance to these experiences, or using these experiences to construct a fixed understanding of the nature of reality in these dimensions. It's safest to hold any views constructed from these experiences as a "working hypothesis." The subconscious mind has an amazing ability to shape these experiences, and being that there are no maps or signs saying "Parallel-Earth dimension" or "Astral Plane 2," or name tags saying "real spiritual entity" or "subconsciously-constructed being," it's very difficult to discern the true nature of these experiences and the beings encountered during them. 15 years of these experiences has made this clear. Even my most profound experiences of unification with Higher Self and universal consciousness cannot be held as absolute truth, as these experiences are elusive to our normal physically-attuned conscious mind.

It's also a common error to go into the experience with a preconceived idea of how things are, as this will have a strong influence on what is experienced. On that note, believing that "Archons" keep us trapped inside this system will likely prevent you from discovering any unbiased degree of truth about this and will distort your perception of any experience contrary to this idea. Again, I would leave that idea as an unverified theory and continue with a mind free of preconceptions.

Take care

[Squatchit]

Originally Posted by VinceField

I'd be cautious about assigning any strong significance to these experiences, or using these experiences to construct a fixed understanding of the nature of reality in these dimensions. It's safest to hold any views constructed from these experiences as a "working hypothesis." The subconscious mind has an amazing ability to shape these experiences, and being that there are no maps or signs saying "Parallel-Earth dimension" or "Astral Plane 2," or name tags saying "real spiritual entity" or "subconsciously-constructed being," it's very difficult to discern the true nature of these experiences and the beings encountered during them. 15 years of these experiences has made this clear. Even my most profound experiences of unification with Higher Self and universal consciousness cannot be held as absolute truth, as these experiences are elusive to our normal physically-attuned conscious mind.

It's also a common error to go into the experience with a preconceived idea of how things are, as this will have a strong influence on what is experienced. On that note, believing that "Archons" keep us trapped inside this system will likely prevent you from discovering any unbiased degree of truth about this and will distort your perception of any experience contrary to this idea. Again, I would leave that idea as an unverified theory and continue with a mind free of preconceptions.

Take care

Well said. I haven't read the thread, just this post. But it's very good advice.

[Astral Explorer]

Originally Posted by VinceField

I'd be cautious about assigning any strong significance to these experiences, or using these experiences to construct a fixed understanding of the nature of reality in these dimensions. It's safest to hold any views constructed from these experiences as a "working hypothesis." The subconscious mind has an amazing ability to shape these experiences, and being that there are no maps or signs saying "Parallel-Earth dimension" or "Astral Plane 2," or name tags saying "real spiritual entity" or "subconsciously-constructed being," it's very difficult to discern the true nature of these experiences and the beings encountered during them. 15 years of these experiences has made this clear. Even my most profound experiences of unification with Higher Self and universal consciousness cannot be held as absolute truth, as these experiences are elusive to our normal physically-attuned conscious mind.

It's also a common error to go into the experience with a preconceived idea of how things are, as this will have a strong influence on what is experienced. On that note, believing that "Archons" keep us trapped inside this system will likely prevent you from discovering any unbiased degree of truth about this and will distort your perception of any experience contrary to this idea. Again, I would leave that idea as an unverified theory and continue with a mind free of preconceptions.

Take care

All of the beliefs I do hold were never pre-conceived though and I use the term parallel-Earth dimensions to describe those specific dimensions. I have found it to be a much more realistic and true description than just jumbling them all up into the term "astral" as I am sure there are some realms that we experience in dreams and projections that would not be considered "astral" realms. I often share my experiences with other people and in an effort to make the process of doing so more simple and quicker I find terms to describe certain dimensions, beings, etc. so that I am not endlessly having to explain what dimension I am in and the beings I am encountering. I don't necessarily mean that the dimension is actually parallel but instead that it is a similar dimension as the one we live in in regards to beings living lives similar to ours and that the dimension exists on Earth. But I can see where some people would get hung up on someone else's terminology. There's a big difference between giving something a name as a reference point and allowing yourself to believe that is exactly what it is and/or the truth. I haven't allowed my beliefs to dictate my experiences since I first learned about astral projection and allowed myself to believe "I was leaving my physical body" with my astral body and so forth. I quickly and very early discovered that most of the information out there about astral projection is either false, inaccurate, or has been molded based on someone else's opinions, beliefs, biases, and so forth. The experiences I do describe have mostly come about from having no expectations, no beliefs filtering them, no biases, etc. I make it a point to try and be an active observer in these experiences as often as possible. But there are some undeniable experiences I have had that make it impossible to deny some things, it makes it impossible to not form a theory about what is or is not going on. As I mentioned before I have been astral projecting probably since around the age of 11 or 12, I just didn't know what astral projection was or what was actually occurring. The only belief that played any role in over a decade of experiences was that they were just "dreams" which is when and how I learned to be an active observer. As far as the Archon belief it's hard for people to see outside of the box we're in but I can assure you that the belief is not shaping my experiences and/or filtering them based on opinions, beliefs, biases, and so forth. I learned long ago how to experience other bodies and dimensions as an observer as they are and not how I believe, hope, or want them to be.

[VinceField]

Sounds good buddy. Take care