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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Death & The Afterlife

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  #11  
Old 03-06-2020, 02:42 AM
AnotherBob AnotherBob is offline
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It's useful to ponder these matters.
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  #12  
Old 03-06-2020, 12:26 PM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
Here's a possibility ... If there is no death, then maybe all the killing and eating of other life forms has no significance. It is just a way of exiting this round of life on Earth, that allows passing to the next round with its challenges. Maybe all the suffering sprouts from the human ignorance of what we are and what we're doing here. Our conscious is watching a scene from a comedy where the characters pretend they're hurt, and lacking the context, it thinks it's watching a tragedy.

Yes, all that is true, yet we can arrange all those same facts around in a different way to get a different perspective on them. There is death, and it is a way of exiting this life, or maybe of allowing this life to exit us. One cannot say there is life unless there is death as well, they create and are necessary to each other. The killing and eating of other life forms has significance in the experience of it during life, as does the experience of being killed and eaten, as do all experiences of life. Perhaps all of our life experiences help to sculpt our souls even if just a bit.

Perhaps our ignorance is not really ignorance, but is just our willing suspension of disbelief, which we do so we can experience life instead of just watching it. Our lives are comedies, dramas, tragedies, and horror, they include moments of all the genres. When I become engrossed in a good book or movie, I become transformed by the story. For I time I become one with that protagonist, I fear their threats, agonize over their tragedies, take satisfaction in their triumphs. When the story ends, regardless of the outcome, I feel a sense of loss, of death, and of awakening to a larger reality. For a time, even though I know it was just a story, I remain notably changed by it, but as the larger story of my life resumes, that change fades back into the background. Yet it never really goes away completely, occasionally something reminds me of it and for a moment I am back there, in that story. I seem to take something with me to keep from each story I experience, whether they be in a book, in a movie, or in life.

Many in the spirituality crowd are quick to point out that life is an illusion. They say not to worry about it, it is not real, you can’t really be hurt or die, and this is all true. For a time I was one of them, and that person still surfaces when life gets particularly hard. However, now I tend to view such folks as the person who keeps talking over the movie and critiquing the characters, plot, or flaws in the science fiction. I know it is an illusion, but it is a real illusion all the same, as real as any illusion I am apt to create to experience. If I allow it to, if for a time I willingly suspend my disbelief, it will transport and transform me just the same.
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  #13  
Old 03-06-2020, 06:31 PM
AnotherBob AnotherBob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
I know it is an illusion, but it is a real illusion all the same, as real as any illusion I am apt to create to experience. If I allow it to, if for a time I willingly suspend my disbelief, it will transport and transform me just the same.

A useful point of view, thanks for skillfully expressing it!
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  #14  
Old 03-06-2020, 06:41 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Yes, ...
I (inner-self) attend a school, for the purpose of learning, acquiring skills, that will allow me to perform better, later.

To better understand whatever I learned in class (how to purposely use and master my creative capabilities), I have to do my homework that includes attending a lab to practice (creating stuff). I login into a simulation software that allows me to do that (physical world).

The virtual exercise puts me in contact with other students, each one at its (we are androgynous) terminal, and we all participate with our avatars (conscious, outer-self, ego) in the simulation. There are all kind of situations we have to resolve, and for the duration of the session, we sometimes get so engrossed in the plot that we forget that we are students, and we identify with our characters, and their challenges are our challenges.

Unfortunately, most of the students forget that they are in this game to practice and acquire creation skills, and not to get sucked in the game's dramas. Because of that, most of us fail the lab. So, we have to re-do the lab over and over, until we learn to concentrate on the purpose of the game (improve our reality creation skills).

We even forget that we have access to a lab assistant (inner-guide, inner source of knowledge and guidance) that can help us, if we ask it for help.
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #15  
Old 03-06-2020, 06:58 PM
AnotherBob AnotherBob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
I (inner-self) attend a school, for the purpose of learning, acquiring skills, that will allow me to perform better, later.

To better understand whatever I learned in class (how to purposely use and master my creative capabilities), I have to do my homework that includes attending a lab to practice (creating stuff). I login into a simulation software that allows me to do that (physical world).

You are fortunate to have such interesting classes!
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  #16  
Old 03-06-2020, 07:13 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherBob
You are fortunate to have such interesting classes!
This is from my dream notes, recorded immediately after waking up:
- went to bed with the intention to have a lucid dream or obe
- toward the morning, quick induction
- in front of a door on which is written "OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCE", opened the door, 1 2 3 entered

- at first couldn't see anything, darkish
- watched my feet, barefoot, covered with an animal fur, I am a primitive man, bearded, overgrown and a little messy, light color skin
- walking through a primitive village, with primitive shelters, small, made of stone, wood, mud, openings for door and window
- other primitive people walking around
- feeling peaceful, no fear, no special thoughts, just living and doing whatever needed to do at the moment
- entered into my shelter, there there was my wife / woman and a couple of small children playing on the ground
- brought home a bunch of tree branches for the fire
- woman was cooking / boiling something
- ate, had sex, went to sleep

- asked my subconscious to estimate when was this: ~9,800 BC
- where was this: Europe, France
- my name: Ahn

- attitude of no expectations, to not influence the experience
- Ahn remained conscious, and projected into what I immediately thought to be the realm where he came from, where he'll return, and where part of him is always there.
- I realized that every time Ahn was going to sleep he projected on that realm, was waking up there, was becoming conscious there
- it seemed that there was no other dreaming involved, not the way we dream now
- just a life awake on Earth, then when sleeping being awake in the other realm
- there were other people around, that seemed familiar

- I asked to meet my council keeping an attitude of no expectations (I forced it here a little, aware that it might affect my experience, but I wanted to see what happens; until today I didn't meet / interacted with anybody, except a couple of times when I asked for my father, and he appeared)
- a council of 7 people, androgynous, didn't see them well, because it was misty

- asked then what's happening: life on Earth is a lab for the school we attend in the other realm
- we are based in the other realm, and project on Earth, that is a lab where we practice things we study in school
- what do we have to do on Earth: to develop, firstly instincts, then emotions, then intellect, and intuition (what I was already believing we do)
- we are essences of consciousness, born / created with no such abilities, and have to develop them; that's why we attend school, and project on Earth to practice what we learned, like having a lab
- this was the original way things were supposed to work, divide our time between being conscious awake on Earth, and projecting conscious back on the base realm while sleeping
- in time, humans changed, started to develop intelligence, and this being still rudimentary distorted the meaning of what's happening, changed their focus more toward the everyday challenges of the life on Earth; so they mostly lost the capability to consciously project back to the base realm, every time they sleep

- note: as they say ... a little knowledge is a dangerous thing; maybe this is the origin of the Adam & Eve story about eating from the tree of knowledge and consequently falling of Heaven ...?

- realization that this is what we are supposed to do at night: consciously project back to the realm we're actually based on
- while awake on Earth should concentrate on the development of our intellect and intuition, and learn to control our emotions and instincts, especially fear ant its derivatives, like anger, etc..

- this was a remarkable experience; I felt that while having it, and when I woke up too

I shared it with others in the "Lucid Dream Experience" March 2020 issue.
__________________
Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #17  
Old 03-06-2020, 07:42 PM
AnotherBob AnotherBob is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
- this was a remarkable experience; I felt that while having it, and when I woke up too[/font]
[/indent]

It sounds like a reliable update from the upper room.
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  #18  
Old 03-06-2020, 08:00 PM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
...

Unfortunately, most of the students forget that they are in this game to practice and acquire creation skills, and not to get sucked in the game's dramas. Because of that, most of us fail the lab. So, we have to re-do the lab over and over, until we learn to concentrate on the purpose of the game (improve our reality creation skills).

.

I like the analogy, but the only part of waver a bit on is that paragraph I quoted above. This is something very hard to convey, but I will go against my better instincts and try anyway. I think perhaps that life is a process of transformation as much or more so than a process of learning or skill building. It seems to me that there is a kind of growth that incorporates, but also transcends, learning and even wisdom. A kind of ‘knowing’ that is transformative to the soul in a way that goes beyond ordinary knowledge of facts, figures, and processes, beyond social skills or emotional intelligence. A kind that is very hard to describe using words so perhaps I should leave it as is as I am apt to only muddy the water more.

More recently I have begun to question just how much of an advantage understanding the illusory game like nature of reality gives one. While one may be able to take a more rational approach in life and understand facts and build skills with a clearer mind and methodical approach, this is a different kind of learning then one gets from a more visceral and “real” experience of life. Kind of like how learning about war through battle tactics and military theory in a classroom, or playing war simulation video games, is something very different than how one learns about war on an actual battlefield where one believes their life to be at risk.

For example, when trying to understand true unconditional love, some may say that there is no greater love than to lie down one's life for another. Many parents will say they would indeed do so for one of their children. Yet if one is truly secure in the knowledge that there is no death and it is merely a transition to the next experience, then one could never actually make such a sacrifice in the same way as one who was not sure if there was even any life after death at all. It is simply not the same experience. In other words, the depth of one's belief in the ‘reality’ of one’s experience of life is an integral and inseparable ingredient in the particular qualia of, and the transformative power of, that experience. One can go to the horror movie and keep conscious of the fact it is just a movie, and sit back and analyze the plot and technical aspects of the story, or one can allow themselves to forget it is a movie and get the sht scared out of them. Both are a kind of an experience and both move the individual in different ways.

Finally, I think it is both a question of learning to create better, as well as life creating an experience that reflects ourselves back upon us to see who we are along the way. It seems to me that life has a way of manifesting situations that reflect different aspects of ourselves that are often outside of our conscious rational awareness. Our fears, desires, weaknesses, and strengths are somehow intentionally pushed and prodded by the events in our lives and in doing so give us opportunities to become aware of where we need to learn, build, and grow. We are the creators of our own realities, but it seems to me that in life, a shared life experience anyway, that much of that creation also originates outside of our direct awareness, outside of our direct control, but nevertheless in line with our desired and needed experience, and on our behalf.

https://calvinandhobbes.fandom.com/w...boded_Hand.jpg
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  #19  
Old 03-06-2020, 08:21 PM
AnotherBob AnotherBob is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 260
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
More recently I have begun to question just how much of an advantage understanding the illusory game like nature of reality gives one.

It grants no advantage at all, unless it leads to ceasing to be a nuisance in this world.
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  #20  
Old 03-06-2020, 08:56 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,089
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer

Let me ask you, how much do you learn from your nightmares? I don't learn anything from them, except when I realize that it is a dream, become lucid, and do something from there.

Why should it be necessary, even useful, to suffer, or experience suffering, when I could just prevent it, or nip it in the bud, by using purposeful creation?

None of the reliable channels support the idea of learning through suffering. That is the pannage of religions, 'progressive" movements, and other scare-mongers.

So, it isn't that physical life is an illusion, but that we have an illusory view of what it is.

As long as we can't imagine that this universe is just a psychological construct, that this is in no way more objective than what we experience during our dreams, all the rationalizations we try will be extremely distorted hypotheses about the wider reality.

I'll add another symbolic piece of knowledge I received during one of my experiences, about how we look at the world / existence / wider reality, vs. how we should look:
- seeing the scenery behind you while taking a selfie, with the front-camera of your cellphone (mobile); the view is obstructed by you

vs.

- turning around, and seeing the scenery in front of you, with your naked eye, or with the back-camera of your cellphone (mobile); unobstructed view, you take yourself out of the picture
__________________
Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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