Our Study Suggests Objective Reality Doesn't Exist

[neil]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

For all we know, we could already be inside of, thus a part of consciousness, awareness, Source, Unity, Divine, God ect and what we perceive is what we get. Maybe, just maybe the not so obvious objective reality or Brahman or heaven is not a place we go to after we die, Brahman/heaven is in the right here in now in the present moment. Just because you do not perceive something, does not mean it is not there. Subjective reality that is based on mental duality thoughts (from the ego), fear, emotions, beliefs, feelings etc etc is the 'matrix', not the phyiscal universe.

What is time--the hour, the day, the week, the year? Time is man made, time is the measurement/movement of the earth rotating, nothing more, nothing less. Thus, time is an illusion. What are the opposites or dual to the examples of duality you gave?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dual

Definition of dual
1of grammatical number : denoting reference to two
a dual pronoun
2a: consisting of two parts or elements or having two like parts : DOUBLE
families with dual incomes
held dual citizenship in France and the U.S.
a dual function
a dual exhaust system
b: having a double character or nature

I do not have a problem with the definition of objective you quoted, that definition fits both the obvious objective reality and the not so obvious objective reality.

2a: of, relating to, or being an object, phenomenon, or condition in the realm of sensible experience independent of individual thought and perceptible by all observers : having reality independent of the mind

A "version" of the Heaven life style, is what we should be living, at this very moment in life, on this planet. However for reasons that yourself & billions of Earthlings are unaware of, "we" do not live in & of a version of a Heavenly life style whilst on this planet.

There is a life free from the flesh & the Earth...in either #1..the spiritual Heavens & or #2..the Holy Kingdoms.

And imediately after our liberation from the flesh & the Earth, any person can choose to live in #1..the spiritual Heavens, which are created & supplied for one & all, any time that we choose. Or they can loiter around the Earth plane & connect themselves to Earthlings in order to further experience more of the Earth life.

I am led to believe that we do not live within the mind of the of the Heavenly Christ entity, however we live/exist within an outer extension of the Heavenly Father Christ entity being...(The spiritual body so to speak)...we live & breath within god

QUOTE.. 27God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. 28‘For in Him we live and move and have our being....unquote.

Although we are not in his mind & conscious being, we however do need to reach out, in order to be near the Heavenly Father.

The Heavenly Father is all Holy ,all loving & all merciful, & would not involve itself, in our lives unless we ask. & so the Heavenly Father has not created all souls, in order to live his life through our experiences. & so this is why we do not exist within his mind, & nor does his mind exist within our mind.

The conscious aware Heavenly Father, has a location unto himself, as we all do. We are individual entities existing unto ourselves & existing within "a part" of the almighty loving one. But not within the mind of the almighty.

We were created in his image. Invisible beings (mind/Soul). & we EMANATE a spiritual body...we are mind & we emanate a spiritual body & we are in his image. So possibly the Almighty "is mind" and also does emanate out from "mind", a body of energy so to speak ie :- the one & only spiritual universe, of which is a part of the almighty & of which the almighty has instilled in himself/The universe, all LOVING laws that provide for us all.

We live in the moment, & moments pass by & of which create memories which are stored within "us".

Moments pass within the spirit/universe. It takes moments, some longer than others, for spiritual beings to move throughout the spiritual universe.
Spiritual beings standing in a certain location within the spiritual universe, can have a desire of being in another location, will decide to go there, & their spiritual body emanation will disappear an although not instantly, they soon will appear at their destination.

Different persons/beings, existing in different locations, moving about by walking or running, or by moving/transporting themselves at incredible speeds.

Many different locations means area/distance. & distance means space. & traveling slowly throuvh that space takes some moments, longer or shorter.

& moments passing anywhere in the one & only singular spiritual universe, can be measured.

If spiritual beings/persons, so chose to, they could measure time, as we do. They could construct a clock based on our seconds, minutes, hours etc and commence to do a specific chore, & at the finish, they could read how long it has taken.

In spirit, everything DOES NOT happen instantaneously nor all at once.
It is the same for us. We do not live in a seperate universe (physical). All physical objects & life, all exist within the spiritual. But because we orbit a star, we have chosen to measure the time it takes to orbit. & so we created clocks.

Spiritual life does not warrant the measurement of time, because when an event that one or very very many persons may be interested in attending, is soon approaching, the interested persons are easily notified en mass, that the event will very soon commence. & so if those persons interested, are not attending to a more important matter, they can move very quickly across space in shorter or longer moments to attend the event.

Thankyou all for your posts on this thread,they have all been interesting.Thanks to JustASimpleGuy for posting those video links.I will look at them at the weekend when I have more time.
Thanks to all for reassuring me that there is an afterlife of sorts,(I know there isn't a hell,but maybe a heaven).As I said earlier,I haven't got a spiritual cell in my body so I will leave you all to it.

Originally Posted by hazada guess

Thankyou all for your posts on this thread,they have all been interesting.Thanks to JustASimpleGuy for posting those video links.I will look at them at the weekend when I have more time.
Thanks to all for reassuring me that there is an afterlife of sorts,(I know there isn't a hell,but maybe a heaven).As I said earlier,I haven't got a spiritual cell in my body so I will leave you all to it.

You can also poke around my YouTube channel. I have a bunch of playlists that might be of interest. Here's one on consciousness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxLy...A&index=2&t=0s

Or this one on NDEs.

https://youtu.be/JL1oDuvQR08?list=PL...rpvus-afkDSVty

Or this one in the Life After Life playlist "UVA DOPS Faculty Presentation: Do We Survive Death? A Look at the Evidence."

https://youtu.be/ZoqNe-U53wA?list=PL...X85yrTIoclQp_E

[Busby]

My own inclination is to think of the universe and our place in it as being a giver and receiver of immense amounts of gathered information.

We are constantly in a state of feedbacking with the universe, we, our minds, and the minds of all other forms, maybe non-organic even, are eternally exchanging data (illuminating, enlightening, guiding, instructing and so on). The universe does appear to be one gigantic mind and we have our place in it and take part as the collected data increases.
To a certain degree we call this collection and the valuation of the same 'evolution', others call it karma. In reality it is an immense feed back process where everything, even the smallest leaf in the jungle replies to its existence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyu7v7nWzfo

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Mike,

If you're interested in spiritual non-duality why not research what the authoritative sources say about it instead of trying to devise your own version, because I'm not making this up but only describing it how they do and have done so going back to the Vedas which are from around 2500 B.C.

I'm also not making up the title of the RCS article either. It's saying objective reality doesn't exist, not this objective reality doesn't exist. That means no objective reality exists, leaving only subjective reality. This study is by Alessandro Fedrizzi, Professor of Quantum Physics, Heriot-Watt University and Massimiliano Proietti, PhD Candidate of Quantum Physics, Heriot-Watt University.

That's exactly what the strict non-dualistic Vedantists say. Many objects in our subjective reality are effects (illusions) of the One cause (Brahman). Furthermore Brahman is awareness which means at our deepest core of being we are all Brahman. In fact everything is. The superficial aspects of everything are just appearances (forms, effects) in the field of awareness (Brahman, cause).

I thought I posted a link to Dean Radin's presentation at TCS but I didn't. Here it is and it's saying the same thing as the RCS article.

https://youtu.be/nRSBaq3vAeY

But seriously, if you want to understand spiritual non-duality spend some time digging through the hundreds upon hundreds of hours of video on Vedanta NY's YouTube channel, because you're really taking issue with their concepts and definitions, not mine. I'm simply repeating their message and isn't it best to go to the source?

Aside from the links above on "Realizing Non-Duality" here's another from the same swami.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5edAZTeEH7w

Sorry, I do not have hours upon hours to spare. Besides their spiritual definition or examples of duality seem to smell a bit fishy to me. Dual means 2 of something and I do not see anything dual with thier definition/examples. Now, if you say Brahman and the physical universe are 2 complete opposites thus, is duality, that is duality itself and you will keep going round and round in circles because you will only perceive/see that duality, with that duality belief. It is kinda like an oxymoron because you will never find non-duality outside of yourself with a belief based on duality. Good luck finding truth and wisdom within that duality belief. Duality and non-duality do not exist outside of us, duality and non-duality exists only inside of us mentally via thoughts, beliefs etc etc that causes emotions and feelings. Your duality based belief of duality and non-duality is proof of that.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Sorry, I do not have hours upon hours to spare. Besides their spiritual definition or examples of duality seem to smell a bit fishy to me. Dual means 2 of something and I do not see anything dual with thier definition/examples. Now, if you say Brahman and the physical universe are 2 complete opposites thus, is duality, that is duality itself and you will keep going round and round in circles because you will only perceive/see that duality, with that duality belief. It is kinda like an oxymoron because you will never find non-duality outside of yourself. Good luck finding truth and wisdom within that duality belief. Duality and non-duality do not exist outside of us, duality and non-duality exists only inside of us mentally via thoughts, beliefs etc etc that causes emotions and feelings. Your duality based belief of duality and non-duality is proof of that.

Yeah, why look to the people who have been studying and exploring this for thousands of years? It would be like going to a surgeon for an operation instead of thinking you can figure out how to do it yourself.

My dad always told me if I needed something done that was outside my expertise that I should seek a skilled professional. No disrespect intended but I think I'll stick to the concepts and definitions of the experts in spiritual non-duality and not yours.

Also not having hours to spare? How much time do you spend watching TV? Browsing the internet and social media? Playing games? Posting here? Engaging in other activities that only produce transient enjoyment?

I'm curious. How did you develop your take on spiritual non-duality, how much time and research did you expend and from what sources did you get your information?

EDIT: You're free to believe what you want to believe, but how you're describing it and defining cornerstone words of the tenant just don't resemble spiritual non-duality as I understand it and defined in Eastern philosophy. It's kind of like saying Christianity is "B" when the Bible and trained theologians say it's "A", and when pointed out you say you don't have time to read and understand the Bible but it must be wrong because you don't trust what's being said about what it says, even by those trained in its interpretation and understanding.

Originally Posted by hazada guess

Thankyou all for your posts on this thread,they have all been interesting.Thanks to JustASimpleGuy for posting those video links.I will look at them at the weekend when I have more time.
Thanks to all for reassuring me that there is an afterlife of sorts,(I know there isn't a hell,but maybe a heaven).As I said earlier,I haven't got a spiritual cell in my body so I will leave you all to it.

TE the above post,that should be scientific,not spiritual.lol.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Yeah, why look to the people who have been studying and exploring this for thousands of years? It would be like going to a surgeon for an operation instead of thinking you can figure out how to do it yourself..


My dad always told me if I needed something done that was outside my expertise that I should seek a skilled professional. No disrespect intended but I think I'll stick to the concepts and definitions of the experts in spiritual non-duality and not yours..

Will you go to a surgeon whom is known to leave objects in patients or who had or has several malpractice lawsuites? Did you know these experts personally? What or who made these experts, experts and who gave them authority? Do you know if these experts had a ulterior motive or not?

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Also not having hours to spare? How much time do you spend watching TV? Browsing the internet and social media? Playing games? Posting here? Engaging in other activities that only produce transient enjoyment?

Not that much. I prefer to have as much quiet time as much as possible. I also discriminate and pick and choose what information and knowledge I store in my subconscious mind.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I'm curious. How did you develop your take on spiritual non-duality, how much time and research did you expend and from what sources did you get your information?

I developed my spirituality over the course of my life after I have started to read Jiddu Krishnamurti. Jiddu Krishnamurti told people to learn how to look within themselves for the answers they seek and to question authority and experts. I learned to stop thinking this or that is good/positive or bad/negative from J. Krishnamurti. I discovered duality (conditional love) and non-duality (unconditional love) after I have looked within myself for the questions I wanted answers to. I also started to not thinking this or that is good/positive or bad/negative, J. Krishnamurti did not talk about duality or non-duality or conditional love or unconditional love at all. Not thinking this way works and it balances and calms the ego, not kill it. I got my information through intuition (from the source) from myself, meaning not from a source outside of myself.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

EDIT: You're free to believe what you want to believe, but how you're describing it and defining cornerstone words of the tenant just don't resemble spiritual non-duality as I understand it and defined in Eastern philosophy. It's kind of like saying Christianity is "B" when the Bible and trained theologians say it's "A", and when pointed out you say you don't have time to read and understand the Bible but it must be wrong because you don't trust what's being said about what it says, even by those trained in its interpretation and understanding.

That is fine. I do not want you to believe me, I want you to look inside/within yourself for the truth because that is where wisdom and pure intelligence resides. Beliefs are not important at all because beliefs are what is holding you back and limiting you. But, it is all good as long as you have mental comfort, mental pleasure and are feeling good mentally. well, it is not all good. You are apparantly attached to the belief based on duality and to the so called experts. To make it clear, The creator (consciousness) is unconditional love/non-duality, not conditional love/duality. You are able to perceive this unconditional love personally with your own 2 eyes but your belief(s) of this is covering this up for you. This is the only non-duality and duality there is, all other duality is man made thus, is subjective and are based on beliefs that are based on duality that causes duality emotions and feelings. How can you or the authors of the study/experiment find or discover non-duality when you and they are attached to a belief that is based on duality/conditional love? It is impossible. That is my point. My beliefs came from my inner intuition, I do not want a reward for talking about this and I do not have motivation to talk about this for any other reason than to help people look within themselves. Your beliefs are someone else's opinions/beliefs (the so called experts) who's motivation and purpose for getting the duality based information out is questionable.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

That is fine. I do not want you to believe me, I want you to look inside/within yourself for the truth because that is where wisdom and pure intelligence resides. Beliefs are not important at all because beliefs are what is holding you back and limiting you. But, it is all good as long as you have mental comfort, mental pleasure and are feeling good mentally. well, it is not all good. You are apparantly attached to the belief based on duality and to the so called experts. To make it clear, The creator (consciousness) is unconditional love/non-duality, not conditional love/duality. You are able to perceive this unconditional love personally with your own 2 eyes but your belief(s) of this is covering this up for you. This is the only non-duality and duality there is, all other duality is man made thus, is subjective and are based on beliefs that are based on duality that causes duality emotions and feelings. How can you or the authors of the study/experiment find or discover non-duality when you and they are attached to a belief that is based on duality/conditional love? It is impossible. That is my point. My beliefs came from my inner intuition, I do not want a reward for talking about this and I do not have motivation to talk about this for any other reason than to help people look within themselves. Your beliefs are someone else's opinions/beliefs (the so called experts) who's motivation and purpose for getting the duality based information out is questionable.

I don't claim to know how it all works. From an intuitive perspective what the non-dualist mystics and spiritualists say resonates. From an intellectual perspective what some of the leading minds in science and at or even beyond the cutting edge of consciousness studies posit is interesting.

I find it interesting both perspectives indicate a non-duality at the foundation of reality, so I pay attention to both because I'm not a mystic who, all by myself, can plumb the depths of reality and determine the nature of Life, The Universe and Everything.

Maybe that will happen one day and I'll transcend this reality while still living, but I don't have such expectations and that's fine by me. Simply having had a worldview changing shift in consciousness is enough and more than I could have ever expected. To say I'm grateful is an extreme understatement.

By the way, the name of this sub-forum is Science & Spirituality.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I don't claim to know how it all works. From an intuitive perspective what the non-dualist mystics and spiritualists say resonates. From an intellectual perspective what some of the leading minds in science and at or even beyond the cutting edge of consciousness studies posit is interesting.

I find it interesting both perspectives indicate a non-duality at the foundation of reality, so I pay attention to both because I'm not a mystic who, all by myself, can plumb the depths of reality and determine the nature of Life, The Universe and Everything.

Maybe that will happen one day and I'll transcend this reality while still living, but I don't have such expectations and that's fine by me. Simply having had a worldview changing shift in consciousness is enough and more than I could have ever expected. To say I'm grateful is an extreme understatement.

By the way, the name of this sub-forum is Science & Spirituality.

What if the physical universe is not separate of the ultimate non-duality reality? I ask what if, because it is best to keep an open mind about it and not come to conclusions about it. What if the big bang did not create the physical universe per se, The physical universe was there before the big bang, the big bang only created matter in the physical universe thus this will make the physical universe itself the ultimate non-duality reality/Brahman?