I AM is a neutral state; it is neither Good nor Bad

[Honza]

Continuing with my investigation into Eastern I AM; my observation is that it is a state of neutrality. It claims to be neither good nor evil.

In the role playing game Dungeons and Dragons the player characters and the creatures are all given an alignment which describes their character. Anything from Lawful Good to Chaotic Evil. With Neutrality in between. These 'alignments' are the moral substance of the creatures and the spiritual planes they exist within.

Devils are Lawful Evil, a Unicorn is Lawful Good etc. The earth is just plain Neutral, while Nirvana is considered Lawful Neutral. In Nirvana there exist Primus The One. He has one hand in complete darkness and one hand in complete light. He exists in between Good and Evil. Just Neutral - but with the application of Law.

Sound familiar? Yes here we have Hinduism and the New Age. Neutral with the application of Law.

Pure consciousness in Neutral - it is neither Good nor Bad. Applying Law in order to reach pure consciousness is the application of Universal Law. The New Age in a nutshell.

Here is where the West departs from the East and claims that it does not believe in Lawful Neutrality - but rather in Goodness instead. The West believes in a GOOD God. Not a Neutral state of bliss.

[Morpheus]

"I Am", in the way used by Jesus is referring to the timeless. He was saying that He existed before Abraham, "was".

Having said that, one can see how the biblical scriptures take on a more eastern aspect in the new testament, with the appearance of the Savior.

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by Honza

The West believes in a GOOD God. Not a Neutral state of bliss.

Is neutral really bliss anyway? - we are a mixture of good & bad depending on circumstance.

The west personifies God as good because it is believed that as our father & creator he has given us a gift. He gave us free will whereas other beings were there to serve i.e angels.

** Caveat: West often means Abrahamic religions as true original western religions are actually pagan/druidic **

The Eastern balance doesn't seem to want you to ponder too much on the hows or whys of the universe - Gods laws - but to become part of the universe by accepting that things are as they are.

West = it's that way because God wishes it
East = it's that way because it is that way.

I think that the West contemplates how to be better by following Gods rules. The East does the same by essentially allowing yourself to be who you are much the same as a duck would never ponder how to be a duck - it just is.

The issue I find is that both have followers whom look upon others as wrong.

Whilst technically both ways encourage you to be happy & healthy by not hurting others but some of the western notions can be harmful just as neutrality can also be harmful.


Neutrality or just saying that things will simply be doesn't right wrongs as they happen.

Western: She's been robbed - well it is the way it was meant to be ...
Eastern: She's been robbed - ah God has a plan & the thief will be punished at some point ..

Both fail to protect the victim, allow a very negative person to be empowered by a violent act against another.

Both systems have conflicting or illogical methods which is why at the very least they have been altered from what was originally said - or at most the fault shows that they were never representative of the divine in the 1st place.

Neutrality is essentially not being human.
But
Only following rules simply makes you a programmed robot.

Which way is better - or are they both the same?

.

[Nature Grows]

Sometimes people say that... the whole "things are meant to be the way they are" thing, but that doesn't mean that you don't do anything, you can do stuff and the stuff you do about stuff was also meant to be... right? thats how i see it when some one says "Oh well, things are meant to be the way they are" and i guess its the same with "everything happens for a reason" there's a million reasons you can give to any one thing happening, but again to me that doesn't mean that you can't change things because you said it yourself "everything happens for a reason" even what you do in response to what ever you just said "everything happens for a reason" too.

To the OP, Neutral? to me God is the most powerful force in the universe and what is that? it's Love, what else can it be? and true unconditional love too me doesn't say you done bad or you done good, it just loves you unconditionally. (That doesn't mean you need be a door matt for people)

All beings have this within them, it's everywhere but in some beings it's more suppressed then others, thats all.

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by Nature Grows

Sometimes people say that... the whole "things are meant to be the way they are" thing, but that doesn't mean that you don't do anything, you can do stuff and the stuff you do about stuff was also meant to be... right? thats how i see it when some one says "Oh well, things are meant to be the way they are" and i guess its the same with "everything happens for a reason" there's a million reasons you can give to any one thing happening, but again to me that doesn't mean that you can't change things because you said it yourself "everything happens for a reason" even what you do in response to what ever you just said "everything happens for a reason" too.

Thing is we don't have the map or the plans to what was meant to be - we probably never will so it can't be confirmed.

You have a chance to make a decision - informed or otherwise but you can only calculate the outcome. The cheat answer is that whatever you decide the universe or God already planned it that way but .. where is the free will there?

The multiverse is a great counter because God would see all multiverse timelines as they all happen at the same point & go on to exist but that just gets even more crazy & infinite. We simply can't understand it so we have to make the best of our situation - even if it goes against doctrine at times.

Look at the religions that won't take blood transfusions - I respect it if it's a decision for you but deciding on your childs behalf is something else.

.

[Nature Grows]

Originally Posted by knightoflenity

Thing is we don't have the map or the plans to what was meant to be - we probably never will so it can't be confirmed.

What i was saying in my post there was not about what is meant to be or not meant to be but more just, like, if someone doesn't like there situation or life they can change it instead of just saying something like oh well its meant to be, especially if they really are not happy with saying that.

Originally Posted by knightoflenity

You have a chance to make a decision - informed or otherwise but you can only calculate the outcome. The cheat answer is that whatever you decide the universe or God already planned it that way but .. where is the free will there?

Oh yea i know what you mean, we can make plans sure but you don't know whats going to happen in the near future lol. The cheat answer your talking about here, iv heard people say that one, and if thats the case then the free will is how your going to perceive your journey, kinda like a roller coaster ride i guess, your not in control but you get to decide how you deal with this. Another one people say is your destiny/destination is already set but how you get there is up to you kinda like a GPS in a car. I don't know what the answer is, im not concerned really.

Originally Posted by knightoflenity

The multiverse is a great counter because God would see all multiverse timelines as they all happen at the same point & go on to exist but that just gets even more crazy & infinite. We simply can't understand it so we have to make the best of our situation - even if it goes against doctrine at times.

The different timeline stuff is trippy yea.

Originally Posted by knightoflenity

Look at the religions that won't take blood transfusions - I respect it if it's a decision for you but deciding on your childs behalf is something else.

Yea, i think iv heard of something like that before. There child is dying so the parents think thats gods plan for the child right? im not sure iv only heard of this a few times, they fail to see imo that if they saved there child then that would also be gods plan, if they believe everything is apart of gods plan, thats kinda what i was trying to say aswell before.

[Honza]

The thing that bothers me about the East the most is that it seems to be based on the Universal "I". The West at least tries to believe in a God of some sort. Personally I find that the "I" and the "God" have different qualities. The "I" lies within me, but as for God? He could be anywhere and everywhere.

If only the East just eased off the "I" business. I just don't trust "I" that much.

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by Honza

If only the East just eased off the "I" business. I just don't trust "I" that much.

Yeah it's odd because actual Easterners seem to do ok - they exist with their beliefs no problem. Westerners who start to follow the east make the "I" into a very selfish existence whilst claiming that they are not.

There is lots of "ego" this & "ego" that, this link is pretty good:


ego-ten-myths-you-ll-be-relieved-debunk


This is the best one:

10. People say “The ego is bad. I’m working on eliminating mine. I’m not that far along but it’s a worthy goal”

: Trying to eliminate your ego is worse than a worthless goal, it’s a distraction from the real business of living, figuring out where to be yangly self-assertive and where to be yin-ly receptive and accommodating.

.

[Lucky 1]

Originally Posted by knightoflenity

Western: She's been robbed - well it is the way it was meant to be ...
Eastern: She's been robbed - ah God has a plan & the thief will be punished at some point ..

.

Add to "western" and "Eastern"

Texan.. She's being robbed!!!....She whips her piece out of her purse and throws down on the perp...then calls the cops to bring a mop and body bag.......

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by Lucky 1

Add to "western" and "Eastern"

Texan.. She's being robbed!!!....She whips her piece out of her purse and throws down on the perp...then calls the cops to bring a mop and body bag.......

well the Texan reaction is just common sense - no place for that here son