Robert Adams

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by muffin

Good afternoon daz

If I was a teacher there would be no theory, you would be out in the thick of it learning it for yourself. The only reason I could think of for been there is to pick you up and dust you off if you fell down, ready for the next round.

Strange that was my parents down to a tee, always there at the bottom of the hill, dust muffin off so he could get in to more trouble

The thing is I've never look at books/teachers for help, only to see where they are, call it a gauge to go by.

Thats how they done things not saying it right or wrong, I know it's not for me I'm not going to live my life thru them, I have my own life to live and my answers lie within.

Thats why I said teachers have to many hang ups, words are easy, actions are another and pure intent is a totally different ball game,
.
Don't ask me about the last part it just pop in

Sure I can res with all of that .

It is in one respect all about living life and seeing for oneself how one's actions reflect upon themselves and other's.

Simply watch and observe how things unfold and how one learns through experience ..

This is part of the parcel of evolving spiritually so to speak .

Seeing how being selfless and being selfish reflects in how we feel within etc ..

My mum as said to Tara. lived by example, lived true to herself and was Self realized .

Her wisdom about life was in abundance with very few words said .

Everything always reflected back to self and that in itself is pure gold .

There was no talk of no-one is here or this world is an illusion or there is some witness that has nothing to do with the mind-body.

There was a deep sense of love for all things but it didn't mean that she became a pushover or suffer fools gladly.

So many unusual concepts nowadays floating about regarding bliss bunny teachers who speak about reality in a certain way but don't actually seem to live life that way .

The hang ups that you mention are the contradictions and the things that don't seem to add up in my eyes regarding what other's at times say .

It's ever so convenient for there to be nothing relating to what you are of the body and the world but carry on regardless as if there is ..

This is one of the biggest walk, talk issues that I see that is plain as it is day .

I have heard a manner of all answers in response to this, the most popular is that we might as well enjoy life even if it's not real ..

That's just a self preference that derives through ego, something that is concluded via an identity of self, something that such folks deny having lol .

All one needs to do is question the teachings and have an understanding of self and no self, mind and no mind and Self realization.

Easier said than done lol, but what does a peep do when they become influenced prior to finding it all out for themselves ..

I suppose there will only be suffering had within delusion, a bit like the swan being told it was an ugly duck before it realized for himself that he was indeed a swan .


x dazzle x

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by Tara5

The best thing you can do is not react to anything, but to act from your heart with love, compassion, peace, and let the chips fall where they may.

As you begin not to react to conditions, you find that your thoughts become weaker and weaker. Your mind, which is merely a bundle of thoughts, wants you to react. The greater the reaction, the stronger the mind. And the stronger the mind, the greater the maya. You get pulled into the game.

When you stop reacting, the mind doesn't like that. Therefore it will bring up all kinds of things. It'll show you all kinds of pictures, make you feel all kinds of negative conditions, so that you will want to react. You therefore have to watch yourself, pay attention to yourself, watch how you react to conditions, watch the nature of your mind.

Robert Adams

This is such an insightful saying of Robert Adams. Thank you for this.
Regarding reactivity , I have created a similar thread in this regard...

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...ad.php?t=63983

[Unseeking Seeker]

***

June 27, 1991 Satsang Robert Adams

For a Jnani who has realized the identity of his inner being with the infinite Brahman.

There is no rebirth, no migration, not even liberation. For he is already liberated.
He is firmly established in an experience of absolute existence, knowledge, bliss, the sat-chit-ananda atman.

The continued existence of the world and of his own body appears to the Jnani only as an illusion. The appearance of which he cannot remove, but which cannot further deceive him until the time when after the decease of the body he wanders not forth but remains where he is and what he is and eternally was.

The first principle of all beings and things. The original eternal pure free Brahman. While living and even when the body falls dead the Jnani rests in his own essential nature. His own swarupa that is all full, all pure, timeless, consciousness and bliss.

The following assertions made by a Jnani constitute his own deepest convictions and experience.

I am infinite, imperishable, self-luminous, self-existent,
I am beginning-less, endless, decay-less, birthless, deathless. Never was I born, I am ever free, perfect, independent, I alone am.
I pervade the entire universe. I am all permeating and interpenetrating. I am supreme peace and freedom absolute.

A Jnani lives forever.
He has attained life everlasting.
Cravings torture him not.
Sins stain him not.
Birth and death touch him not.
He is free from all cravings and longings.
He ever rests in his own sat-chit-ananda swarupa.
He sees the one infinite Self in all and all in the infinite Self which is his being.
He remains forever as the infinite Self of consciousness and delight.

***

[Tara5]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Your not really addressing my line of thought/s lol . I say that there requires mental / intellectual relations in order to conclude that you have nothing to do with the body or this world

Please don't dodge the question
Okay, I'll say it again.

Can a finite mind understand an infinite Consciousness?

If yes, then how?
If not, then why?

His marriage, sex, personal love questions can wait...Right?

[Tara5]

Originally Posted by ajay00

This is such an insightful saying of Robert Adams. Thank you for this.
Regarding reactivity , I have created a similar thread in this regard...
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...ad.php?t=63983

Thanks, dear Ajay

[Tara5]

Play the game with yourself.
Whenever you think of another person, whenever you think of a problem, whenever you think of a beautiful sunset, catch yourself.
Ask yourself,

To whom has this come?
It has come to me.
I perceive it.
Before you ask, ‘Who am I?

Remember to realize that you are not the ‘I’.
The ‘I’ that perceives is not you.
In other words, What you must do from now on is, when you refer to ‘I’, you’re not talking about yourself.

Robert Adams

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Tara5

Please don't dodge the question
Okay, I'll say it again.

Can a finite mind understand an infinite Consciousness?

If yes, then how?
If not, then why?

His marriage, sex, personal love questions can wait...Right?

Your question as already explained just illustrates more and more mental and intellectual relations and conclusions .

In the same way that an individual that has limited awareness cannot be aware of all that is, just the same as an ice cube cannot maintain it's crystalised structure in a hot oven.

Getting married through being self identified happens just as the ice that melts happens.

It's a matter of fact isn't it .

Why dress it up in a way where it is believed not to happen just because there is something concluded in mind that gives one the impression of the opposite happening. How is it concluded? This is what I have consistently mentioned.

You see you are using the finite mind and the infinite in such a way where it is perhaps impossible to understand the reality as we see it but equally so Adams is coming from a finite mind perspective also.

So how can there be any truth in that the mind-body-world reality has nothing to do with him because like said, all it is, is a mindful conclusion and it isn't realized.

All that you are doing is using such premises against your own beliefs.

It would be beneficial if you could speak about what you think Self realization refers too and what you think some finite mindful conclusion refers too.

At present as I see it, all your doing is passing off what I see as mindfulness as a realization of Truth when it isn't .

This is why it doesn't add up because peoples actions don't match their conclusions, because if you realized you was a swan you wouldn't behave like a duck if you get my meaning.

Now what I am seeing is people running around getting married and such likes, self identifying within the process of life while proclaiming to be free of identity ..

It doesn't work and you haven't said anything to refute what I have said . You either don't understand the process of self and no self, identity and no identity or you are just ignoring what you actually believe so it fits in with what other teachers are saying.

What would be beneficial also is to share with us your understanding of self identity and how you can function and get married and have children and brush your teeth without having this sense of oneself identified . All this jazz is based upon conditioning to certain degrees and you can't be conditioned without a sense of self identity. Like already explained, even to identify that one has no self identity is actually self identifying. This is why it's bonkers!!

Perhaps when one is devoted they can't see why it is or how it is so ..



x daz x

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Like already explained, even to identify that one has no self identity is actually self identifying.

That is a mental identification, that involves the process of thought.

Awareness or no-mind has no identification because the process of thought is not involved. There is only the Self or Being.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by ajay00

That is a mental identification, that involves the process of thought.

Yes, just as your reply is a mental thought process also.

Originally Posted by ajay00

Awareness or no-mind has no identification because the process of thought is not involved. There is only the Self or Being.

No mind has no identification associated to anyone or anything I would agree with but we are speaking about Adams of the mind here and not beyond mind or no mind as you put it.

We are speaking about a man that marries his wife, and identifies with her and his children, a man that identifies with all the other teachers, mentors and guru's that he has studied and befriended.

There is no point speaking about beyond mind or no mind in these instances because all these experiences that Adams has and you and I have are of the mind .

This is where I think peeps get confused because there is the beingness of beyond mind so as soon as one is aware of the mind-body-world they think it is illusory or not real or dream like and no-one is actually here. This is just the mind trying to make sense of what is beyond sense.

As stated to Tara, to think that there is no-one here of the mind that has got nothing to do with the mind-body-world-reality is a conclusion made. It is not some Truthful Realization.

One can conclude post-realization that what they are is both of this world and beyond, because the is only what you are, that being another conclusion.

The realisation as already said doesn't reveal anything about the texts and dogma written in the bible or the scriptures .





x daz x

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by God-Like

No mind has no identification associated to anyone or anything I would agree with but we are speaking about Adams of the mind here and not beyond mind or no mind as you put it.

Adams here is also speaking of Awareness or no-mind or witnessing, which is all one and the same.

The mind is but thoughts and the emotions they generate, which has a beginning and an end, and are different from the Self or Awareness or pure consciousness.


Awareness is the background for all of our experiences, and yet in our ordinary day-to-day lives, it is often obscured by habituated thoughts and emotions. Most teaching and meditation practices are designed to cut through this habituated seeing into the Background of Awareness which is our innate nature and which is, in and of itself, Clear Seeing. -- Metta Zetty

Originally Posted by God-Like

We are speaking about a man that marries his wife, and identifies with her and his children, a man that identifies with all the other teachers, mentors and guru's that he has studied and befriended.

There is no point speaking about beyond mind or no mind in these instances because all these experiences that Adams has and you and I have are of the mind .

As stated earlier, Adams is talking about the Self-awareness or pure consciousness, and not the mind.



Consciousness minus conceptualization is the eternal Brahman the absolute; consciousness plus conceptualization is thought. -- Yoga Vasistha


Thinking and consciousness are not synonymous. Thinking is only a small aspect of consciousness. Thought cannot exist without consciousness, but consciousness does not need thought. -- Eckhart Tolle

Originally Posted by God-Like

This is where I think peeps get confused because there is the beingness of beyond mind so as soon as one is aware of the mind-body-world they think it is illusory or not real or dream like and no-one is actually here. This is just the mind trying to make sense of what is beyond sense.

This is just mental entanglement and confusion.

The aware or one centred in Being, is content with Being and does not tie itself in knots with thinking or what their mind is producing.



Your true nature is awareness and not what your mind is producing. - Burt Harding

Originally Posted by God-Like

As stated to Tara, to think that there is no-one here of the mind that has got nothing to do with the mind-body-world-reality is a conclusion made. It is not some Truthful Realization.

Leave the mind and focus on no-mind. But you are unable to do so, because of lack of understanding of meditation and its practice. Hence the incessant focus on mental gymnastics, which are infinite in its courses of thought and leads nowhere.

The Self can be experienced and understood only in thoughtless awareness.

Originally Posted by God-Like

One can conclude post-realization realize that what they are is both of this world and beyond, because the is only what you are, that being another conclusion.

Realisation is the conclusion. There is no post-realization, which actually means that the egoic mind is still in control, and creating its own conditioned opinions incessantly.

Originally Posted by God-Like

The realisation as already said doesn't reveal anything about the texts and dogma written in the bible or the scriptures .

It is the realized who make the scriptures, so that the unrealized can transcend the mind to the Self or Awareness intuitively and easily.

Other than that, there is no other purpose for it.


Zen actually exhorts advanced practicioners to burn the scriptures so as to divorce all mental attachments to the scriptures and live them in mindful practice instead.