God did not quite say his name was I AM.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by django

What I liked about my above quote and why I posted it here was because it acknowledges the need for self-knowledge, and in fact sees this as a priority before 'God knowledge'.

This is my understanding as well, the journey is to the depths within, emptying oneself completely, and then divinity may grow from within as it will. So it's not as though the gnostics are the only ones who seek knowledge within, but there's something about the gnostic path that the author of the quote also recognises as something a bit off kilter, in his case that “they seek to become divine before they have become human."

Same with being the light, it's reaching too high too quickly, first there is emptying, and then the light slowly grows. I am not God and I am not light until I am very far along this path, because to be God to me is to be able to do miracles from the power of God, it is a very high achievement, which I don't think people should be going around claiming.

"I am God" or "I am the light" should mean something, and it should be backed up by the ability to prove divinity at will.

If someone was one with God, do you really think they would do monkey tricks every time someone snaps their fingers? Think they need to prove it to everyone all day long?

It doesn't work that way.

Your way is even if Jesus walked up to you and offered to assist you, you wouldn't unless he proved himself.

Again, you think it really works that way?

Also, they seek to be divine before they become human?

So the author puts some standard that people have to meet to become human first? Is this a cultural based human standard, who is setting up this standard, are we not already human?

If it is about being a better person, that is exactly what the path to finding the Light achieves along the way.

Or you can always do like your author, it's not time yet, I'm not worthy, I'm not human enough yet.. but someday and when I do start I will be much farther along than those darn gnostics that started these practices years ago.

[django]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

If someone was one with God, do you really think they would do monkey tricks every time someone snaps their fingers? Think they need to prove it to everyone all day long?

It doesn't work that way.

Your way is even if Jesus walked up to you and offered to assist you, you wouldn't unless he proved himself.

Again, you think it really works that way?

Jesus 'assisted' people with the words he said, and for the sick with physical healing. His words were persuasive, and directed people in the way they should think and conduct themselves. There are many references in the bible to people being astounded by his mere words.

If I were to hear him speak, and see him heal someone in a second or even just hear a rumour that he had done this, this is more than enough to make me attend to more of what he said and did, and to then make decisions based on this evidence.

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Also, they seek to be divine before they become human?

So the author puts some standard that people have to meet to become human first? Is this a cultural based human standard, who is setting up this standard, are we not already human?

If it is about being a better person, that is exactly what the path to finding the Light achieves along the way.

Or you can always do like your author, it's not time yet, I'm not worthy, I'm not human enough yet.. but someday and when I do start I will be much farther along than those darn gnostics that started these practices years ago.

Without stripping yourself bare first the ego remains ascendant, and the statement "I am God" or "I am Light" gets attached to the ego, not the True Self or the soul.

This is when "God knowledge precedes self knowledge".

Ego hides in the deepest chasms in the heart, and in the most hidden and inaccessible spaces in the mind, and it is these depths that we need to mine before we can authentically claim the Godly heights.

The ego isn't a fairy tale, it is like a false king who aims to sit on the throne within that is reserved for the divine.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by django

Jesus 'assisted' people with the words he said, and for the sick with physical healing. His words were persuasive, and directed people in the way they should think and conduct themselves. There are many references in the bible to people being astounded by his mere words.

If I were to hear him speak, and see him heal someone in a second or even just hear a rumour that he had done this, this is more than enough to make me attend to more of what he said and did, and to then make decisions based on this evidence.


Without stripping yourself bare first the ego remains ascendant, and the statement "I am God" or "I am Light" gets attached to the ego, not the True Self or the soul.

This is when "God knowledge precedes self knowledge".

Ego hides in the deepest chasms in the heart, and in the most hidden and inaccessible spaces in the mind, and it is these depths that we need to mine before we can authentically claim the Godly heights.

The ego isn't a fairy tale, it is like a false king who aims to sit on the throne within that is reserved for the divine.

Again, you are saying show me proof, do some miracles or I am not going to listen to you. If Jesus walked up to you now and said hi, I am Jesus and that hi didn't move you what would you do?

Ignore him? Demand a demo?

It sounds like it

The old laws were about how to conduct yourself, Jesus was much more about a higher realization. To forgive is more about you.. those issues and fears than anything else.

All traditions talk about stripping away the issues and fears, of removing the ego to become one with God. It isn't a thinking, it is a realization.

[django]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Again, you are saying show me proof, do some miracles or I am not going to listen to you. If Jesus walked up to you now and said hi, I am Jesus and that hi didn't move you what would you do?

Ignore him? Demand a demo?

It sounds like it

Would the real Jesus please stand up...

List of people claimed to be Jesus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ed_to_be_Jesus

And could the Jesuses please form an orderly line in Jerusalem especially, no pushing or shoving, I'll get to you all...

"Jerusalem syndrome," where people experience religious delusions, used to be more common, with about 50 cases each year – enough for a psychiatric hospital in Jerusalem to become the designated treatment centre for tourists, mostly Christian, in the grip of the condition. There was a spike in reported cases in the run-up to the millennium, but in an interview in 2011, a psychiatrist at the hospital reported seeing only two or three cases a year.

It has become a curiosity, played for laughs in an episode of the Simpsons (on holiday in Jerusalem, Homer becomes convinced he is the Messiah), but it is often disturbing and dangerous for those afflicted, many of whom are hospitalised. In 1969, Denis Michael Rohan, an Australian tourist, set fire to the al-Aqsa mosque, believing he was on a divine mission. His actions caused riots across the city. There have been men convinced they were Jesus or John the Baptist, and women believing they were the Virgin Mary.

Originally Posted by jonesboy

The old laws were about how to conduct yourself, Jesus was much more about a higher realization. To forgive is more about you.. those issues and fears than anything else.

All traditions talk about stripping away the issues and fears, of removing the ego to become one with God. It isn't a thinking, it is a realization.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by django

Would the real Jesus please stand up...

List of people claimed to be Jesus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ed_to_be_Jesus

And could the Jesuses please form an orderly line in Jerusalem especially, no pushing or shoving, I'll get to you all...

"Jerusalem syndrome," where people experience religious delusions, used to be more common, with about 50 cases each year – enough for a psychiatric hospital in Jerusalem to become the designated treatment centre for tourists, mostly Christian, in the grip of the condition. There was a spike in reported cases in the run-up to the millennium, but in an interview in 2011, a psychiatrist at the hospital reported seeing only two or three cases a year.

It has become a curiosity, played for laughs in an episode of the Simpsons (on holiday in Jerusalem, Homer becomes convinced he is the Messiah), but it is often disturbing and dangerous for those afflicted, many of whom are hospitalised. In 1969, Denis Michael Rohan, an Australian tourist, set fire to the al-Aqsa mosque, believing he was on a divine mission. His actions caused riots across the city. There have been men convinced they were Jesus or John the Baptist, and women believing they were the Virgin Mary.

I think you are missing the point.

As the old saying says, work on yourself and when you are in the presence of a Divine being like Jesus you will know. You won't need proof.

Until then, go with faith and maybe start those Buddhist practices you seem drawn to.

All the best.

[django]

1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

[sky]

Originally Posted by django

1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

John could be a ' False Prophet ' or mybe he does Magic Tricks
That's the problem in a belief system which is what most Religions are based on, I prefer to test things out for myself and go from there onwards which is also what Buddha taught, makes more sense to me but some just believe.

[django]

Originally Posted by sky123

John could be a ' False Prophet ' or mybe he does Magic Tricks
That's the problem in a belief system which is what most Religions are based on, I prefer to test things out for myself and go from there onwards which is also what Buddha taught, makes more sense to me but some just believe.

Totally agreed on belief systems, as I quoted from a Christian mystic earlier, "Self-knowledge before God knowledge," it might save a lot of wars.

John didn't set himself up as a prophet though, but just as a recorder of the life of Jesus, very likely embellished by John's complete devotion to Jesus as the Christ Messiah from my reading of his gospel.

[sky]

Originally Posted by django

Totally agreed on belief systems, as I quoted from a Christian mystic earlier, "Self-knowledge before God knowledge," it might save a lot of wars.

John didn't set himself up as a prophet though, but just as a recorder of the life of Jesus, very likely embellished by John's complete devotion to Jesus as the Christ Messiah from my reading of his gospel.

" As I quoted from a Christian mystic earlier, "Self-knowledge before God knowledge,"


Are they not the same? God and the self are intimately related, are we not human and divine, you can't separate them.

[django]

Originally Posted by sky123

" As I quoted from a Christian mystic earlier, "Self-knowledge before God knowledge,"


Are they not the same? God and the self are intimately related, are we not human and divine, you can't separate them.

I mean self-knowledge before God-faith. Psychology before religion.

For myself I agree I have the potential for divinity, but I don't see myself as divine until I actualise my God potential. Similar maybe to Self-actualisation, enlightenment, if it hasn't happened I'm not yet Self-actualised or enlightened, though the potential for each state exists.