Pre life agreements....who signed me up?

Originally Posted by RichMartini

Hi Res, each incident is related to the person involved. There's no maxim, or over reaching rule, other than we are all connected energetically. That we all come from the same source, and we've lived many lives together, helping each other with our choices of actions. So, if you feel the need to drown the whole ship, is it possible that they all asked you to do so? If they did, then are you doing them a service? How could you know? And as such, if you saw a person drowning, would you save them? Or let them drown? That choice, and the answer to it, only you can know.

I wasnt being faecitious and at one stage of my life i actually did consider these questions. I spent three years studying toward a diploma that bases its teachings on the ideas that you are cultivating here and have heard all this before and lived it personally.
NO i dont feel it is possible that i was asked to kill a bunch of people to do them a service before i incarnated to human form. Why you would you propose justifying such an evil act using assumed spiritual truth is beyond me.

My concern here is the message that is being passed around as some kind of factual truth to those that may be young and impressionable. I dont support those that attempt to persuade others toward the way of thinking that could see some justify taking another persons life because of a pre life agreement.

Could this be the reason why the bali bomber left court with such a huge smile on his face, because it was his duty to honor the contract that his advisor passed on as spiritual truth?

In Australia if i were to suggest to someone that they can justify their actions for killing a group of strangers this way i am sure i would be charged accordingly for encouraging or assisting a crime.

Encouraging or assisting a crime in English lawFrom Wikipedia,

Encouraging or assisting a crime is itself a crime in English law, by virtue of the Serious Crime Act 2007. It is one of the inchoate offences of English law.

Definition: Inchoate means "just begun" or "undeveloped", and is used in English criminal law to refer to situations where, although a substantial offence has not been committed, the defendant has taken steps to commit it, or encouraged others to do so.[1] As in all inchoate offences, the defendant "has not himself performed the actus reus but is sufficiently close to doing so, or persuading others to do so, for the law to find it appropriate to punish him".[2]

Originally Posted by RichMartini

The point is - its very hard to discern why bad things happen to us - but suffice to say once we take judgement and fear off the table - we don't judge those for doing bad things, because we can't possibly know why they're doing them as so many factors are involved, including people asking in advance that they behave badly - it's such a profound reframe for the planet - and the reason I'm running around like a lunatic letting people know about it.

Have you considered that your words could be interpreted as persuading others that they can justify taking someone elses life as part of your proposed universal pre life plan and that it seems you have offered counsel toward it amongst members of this forum? You can remove the fear but you cant remove the judgement of the law from the table no matter how highly spiritual your think your teachings are.

I find the case you put forward very persuasive and see nothing profound in your attempt at a reframe for the planet of this magnitude.

Hi Res, just to be clear, I'm not proposing a philosophy or a way of life - or how anyone should behave. I'm a filmmaker first and foremost, although I've also worked as a journalist. And at some point in my career I started to research a documentary about this topic, and Michael Newton's work. If you haven't read Michael's books "Journey of Souls" is his first, then this material will be new to you, and won't be territory you've already covered. It's based on his 30 years of research, with thousands of patients.

As a filmmaker and a skeptic, I felt my task in delving into this topic was to ferret out if Newton was somehow influencing his subjects, or projecting his point of view or research into his clients. By independently filming different sessions with different therapists and then gathering information of similar events with people who've never heard of Newton or his work - I found that he was accurate and the results were consistent.

And that's why it needs to be presented in a factual way. I'm not trying to convince anyone of a point of view. <snip>

There's no one else who has covered this research in as much depth as Michael Newton - with a relentless examination of the Afterlife with a variety of subjects. And I've been filming past life regressions and between life sessions for years now. I can tell you beyond a shadow of doubt that if you had been in the room with these clients, you'd have had the same experience as I did. That's why I brought my camera.

So as a filmmaker, I owe a debt to the truth - to present the evidence in a clear straightforward manner and to not cut corners or edit the story in such a way to mess around with the truth. I don't expect everyone to want to hear about it, nor do I agree with you that people are so fragile that they can't handle what this research shows. Because it shows a number of really profound and wonderful results. And I've heard from people across the planet who've been profoundly moved by the work -I'm not crediting myself or the book, because it's Michael Newton who has done the work. I merely was allowed to turn on my camera to watch him and his trainees, and then interview a number of folks who never heard of Michael Newton but had the same results.

<snip> What people say under hypnosis is uniform about what happens in the Afterlife - and what judgments are given or not given for our actions. It's not a point of view I'm trying to promote - I'm just reporting what they're saying - and because it's consistent, and replicable - or from a science point of view, can be repeated with different people - it's worth examining.

For me the bottom line is to have a little more faith in humanity - in our spiritual selves - to examine new information in such a way as to see if it fits our own journey on the planet. There are a million reasons why people commit suicide, and it's the people left behind who have to sort out the why and put logic to the reasons involved. Sometimes they're genetic, sometimes they're sociological, sometimes they're drug or psychosis related. But if a person can be in touch with their eternal self - to see how fruitless and counterproductive that kind of behavior is, and to see how they have changed and helped people in their lifetime - that they have purpose - I think is helpful to people. <snip>

Edited by SF Staff

Just always try to save and do good. no matter who or what they are. No exceptions, judge them not by who they're against or for, but by what they are. get me blud?

wagwan! safe
lol

[Sarian]

I've only read a few of the responses. I would certainly think why on earth would I sign myself up for the life I had, but I often heard that it's about the experience and how would we react to them, would we flounder, cry, p*ss and moan (I have certainly had my share of days doing those), but I have also risen above it as hard as some days it is and I can only wallow, out of shear fatique and sometimes disillusionment of life...but something stronger within me doesn't allow myself to stay there, and I'm glad. I could be a miserable lot and be horrible and why me, why me, and hate everyone and feel owed and entitled, but I am not that way. So I think it's to see what you are made of, to see how to find good in life, despite the sh-**** that flies in our faces...and to inspire others perhaps.

[Emmalevine]

Originally Posted by Native spirit

Well it is said that we choose our parents etc in spirit,then we come here to learn, this does not sit into my way of thinking as i would never has choosen to be born into the physical world again and most def not with my family, i have done nothing but suffer in this life, through family not believing in me etc, born to be hated by my mother especially, the ammount of operations ive had in this life is a lot believe me. no i would not have choosen to be here again,as far as im concerned life is hell on earth.,

Namaste

Native Spirit I feel compelled to reply to your post as it really moved me. I'm sorry you've had such painful experiences but I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I'm not suicidal anymore (I used to be for a long while during various periods of my life) but I too feel like I would never have chosen this life and suffering. I do see the beauty of life but it also feels like an endless personal struggle of illness, disability (self and my child), massive events going wrong, bullying from family and school and now so much isolation...I get the feeling it's just too much to deal with and I wouldn;t choose this life again at least from what i can say consciously now.

I also find it very hard (as bitter as this may sound) that some people seem to have remarkably easy lives, everyday is full of happiness, yet for others its just so hard. I understand that happiness comes from within but I don't think it's always as simple as being happy when external events are so painful.

[Emmalevine]

Originally Posted by Sarian

I've only read a few of the responses. I would certainly think why on earth would I sign myself up for the life I had, but I often heard that it's about the experience and how would we react to them, would we flounder, cry, p*ss and moan (I have certainly had my share of days doing those), but I have also risen above it as hard as some days it is and I can only wallow, out of shear fatique and sometimes disillusionment of life...but something stronger within me doesn't allow myself to stay there, and I'm glad. I could be a miserable lot and be horrible and why me, why me, and hate everyone and feel owed and entitled, but I am not that way. So I think it's to see what you are made of, to see how to find good in life, despite the sh-**** that flies in our faces...and to inspire others perhaps.

I feel much the same Sarian. I try to pick myself up, get out of victimhood, accept my lot, inspire others etc, but it can still be very hard to sustain, at least for myself personally, and especially when I know it is set to continue and I feel so helpless.

I find the book 'Man's Search for Meaning' very helpful. It's written by a survivor of the Holocaust who describes finding spiritual meaning and freedom in being able to choose the attitude to bear the extreme suffering.

[Sarian]

I'm sorry about the life you have had to endure Starbuck, but you are an inspiration. Oh, the book sounds fascinating...

Ever notice that, especially children, afflicted with some dreadful disease and won't have a long life, often have such strength and wisdom, greater than adults with knowledge and life and wisdom under the belt...they inspire and even calm and sooth others in the mist of their own battles.

A friend of mine had a lovely daughter who had a disease that ended up taking her life, but that little girl had so much strength and wisdom and it's as though even now she watches over her parents from someplace or left them with strength to endure the things they would later have to endure. It's incredible when you think about it.

[Louisa]

Samsakra, sometimes I've felt that way too. I have seen so much difficulty and pain. I have felt I couldn't bear it. But then when I found a way to bear it, I often gained something powerful from it. Still, I think, the process to healing and being able to find that perspective is sometimes very difficult (more than words can begin to express, especially to someone who has had a relatively easy life). Sometimes maybe it is even impossible, or nearly impossible to find the perspective. Even so, I have wondered if the wrenching pain could bear a lesson in the long run, even carried into a next lifetime.
RichMartini, I have wondered something like that - you know, maybe people can be intending something good at a soul or spirit level, even when their actions on the physical plane look horrible. I wouldn't go as far as to assume that every harmful action is that way, and I don't believe we can consciously understand it, so it shouldn't be used as a philosophy to justify actions. I believe we still have some freewill, or it most certainly seems that way, and seems most gratifying to believe and act as if it were so (based on our human perspective). So in that way, we would seek good and loving, but also to seek wisdom and sharing and teaching (and maybe see how to forgive from the possibility of this beyond-life, eternal perspective). Sometimes teaching can be through "tough love" or teaching through paradox and things might not always look good on the surface. But one has to be very wise and have pure intentions and go beyond ego to use that approach in a constructive way, or it is likely too tricky and prone to corrupt subconscious or delusional motives. (as people have used religion to wage war, etc.) On a conscious level, we are best to work with what we can see, understand, sense, and perceive, I think. So we can't see the bigger, eternal picture. But I could see how if we saw eternity, some things might be helpful which would seem like curses from our limited human perspective.
How many times do we hear "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.", and I've read "God uses evil people for his own means", "You have to go through hell before you get to heaven" and so on. I think a problem with this comes in because we are still evolving and still imperfect. That's where our conscious, personal individual self maybe has to try and to see clearly and live with rightful intention and action. Our soul may choose ways to learn but our conscious selves have to make the right choices in order to keep things moving towards wholeness and healing and truth. That's why suffering maybe isn't always helpful or right, why people are not always able to be resilient and rise above. Or maybe it's just that I don't even see the whole bigger picture, and if I did, everything, including all the suffering would make sense. Some say we have to have equal measure suffering and good to experience and understand the two sides of the coin. I don't know. But I prefer to focus on the good, as I find it most productive and helpful, and of course most do. This is just my perspective.

[Native spirit]

Starbuck.


What i have noticed that people who go through so much,are normally the ,more giving they have more empathy, because they have been through so much themselves, i am a counsellor ans a councellor in both senses of the word, because im happy when im helping others,
you give out a light to others remember that.

Namaste

Hi Starbuck and Native Spirit. First please allow me to say thank you for choosing to be on the planet in the first place. It's a difficult choice, and there are many difficulties we can choose from - and when I meet people who've gone through hell and back, in the form of mental or physical abuse, I have only the deepest compassion and respect for them. And after going through these difficult times you've been able to share your experiences with others so they can learn from them. That's a noble and wonderful compassionate thing to do.

I can only say, with utmost respect, that when you start to read some of these cases,where people under deep hypnosis recount difficult lives and why they chose them, it's allows a certain amount of perspective. Newton wrote three books "Journey of souls" "Destiny of Souls" "Life between lives" - and the fourth "Memories of the Afterlife" is written by therapists he's trained around the world who recount, with their clients,their own sessions and why and how they chose difficult lives.

There's also an interesting book by Robert Schwartz, it was called "Courageous Souls" but is called something else now - but in his case he sought out people who chose difficult lives (blind, handicapped, etc.) and through the use of different spiritual investigation, they were able to recount why they chose these difficult lives and the ramifications involved. Not based on Karma - but based on compassion. To help other people. The stories are pretty amazing (and concur with Newton's research)

When I speak to my friends about this detail of choosing parents I usually hear "Get the F out of here!" following by "Are you nuts? I never would have chosen this family!" But that choice is precisely why they become the people they become - to get away from them,or to change their paradigm. I've filmed many cases where a person found that the family member they most hated, was able to show them between lives, how that was a choice they made on purpose,out of love, to play that role.

I'll give a couple of examples - a lifelong friend was skeptical, but <snip> wanted to try a session. On the drive there she said "It might come up, but my father sexually molested me and my brother committed suicide via drug overdose." I didn't know that about her - a very successful NY business woman I'd known since grade school. During the session, after she remembered a life in London in 1610 (details which I was able to confirm later) she went between lives and spoke to her father. And as she spoke of their meeting, she said "Oh I see, I had agreed to experience that with him, so that he could learn from the negativity of the experience. I volunteered to do that out of love for him, to help him." And when she saw her brother, she said "My brother signed up to experience the energy of excess in this lifetime." The therapist said "I'm sorry that he wasn't able to fulfill that journey (Meaning because he'd killed himself) and she said "No, actually, he signed up for that as well - that was part of the journey and he successfully completed it." After the session on the drive home I asked her how she felt about both of them. She said "I completely lost all my anger and fury at them by seeing myself in that form, and understanding the choices I had made along with them."

<snip> I recount a case of a Mormon man who was cast out of his ward for being gay, ostracized by his family, cut off from everyone he knew and loved. At some point he sought out a Newton trained therapist in nearby Arizona, where during his session he saw that his principal accuser, the elder in charge of his ward, was part of his soul group and they'd spent many lifetimes together - usually as monks or some other religious order. And during the session,the elder said "don't you remember? This was our agreement - you wanted to experience a lifetime outside of our close knit group, a lifetime where you got to feel and experience all the things that you normally missed out on - and this was our agreement that I would send you away from the group so you could live that lifetime."

In that session, the man was able to forgive everyone - his family, his elder, everyone who had supposedly hurt him - when actually they'd done him a favor by shoving him out the door so to speak. So two things are key to examine; one is, could it possibly be from some odd point of view that my life has been enriched by my experiences? And two, what would happen to my heart, to my mind, if I just decided at this very moment to forgive everyone? To let go of all that anger, resentment, pain and stress - as if I was reborn this very moment, and live in this moment as a person of complete and utter compassion?

In my first LBL session - and to be frank, I was a skeptic, I didn't believe I was going to see or experience anything,and I had the same experience everyone has - only different, from my perspective - and as I was finishing the session, the therapist asked me "Is there any last thing we can learn here, that you might like to impart to the world?" And I said "Just let go. The message I'm hearing is to tell people to just let go - of anger, resentment, fear, revenge - let it all go."

This research shows that we choose our parents, and choose our lifetimes. That between lives we drop all the baggage, fear, anger, resentments from our lifetime and return to a state of a kind of bliss. We continue to learn and do things there, and at some point in the future, with the guidance and help of our loved ones, sometimes to benefit another person, we decide to come back here and do it all again. And we have a life planning session where we map out the story points - who we're going to be and how we'll connect to make the storyline work. We have free will - we don't have to come back - we don't have to fulfill our contracts - sometimes people don't - but we usually show up here with every intent to do so, especially if it's going to benefit one of our loved ones. And once we return back home to that place, people claim that we celebrate, embrace each other and congratulate each other for an amazing job well done. And again - I'm not philosophizing of how I think it should be - I'm just reporting what thousands of people have said - with different therapists around the planet.

Hope this is helpful.

Edited by SF Staff