The Shiva Forum

[SoulGenesis]

Originally Posted by davidsun

The opening post of this thread clearly states:

Namaste.

I am creating this thread, so that if anybody wants to ask me a question about Shiva or Shaivism they can do so right here.

So, it is questions about what she believes is the truth. If her truth is better than mine then she can provide the answers. What's the problem? It's a chance. ;-)

[SoulGenesis]

In the end it's about the elephant, and she agreed already on that. (-;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Namaste..

How much do you know about Hinduism to make those claims?

If you want logical and rational philosophical thought in Hinduism, you read the Upanishads...You study Patanjali and Adi Shankaracharya...even those things which seem like illogical and fanciful mythology all have an incredibly deep meanings behind them.....but only a Hindu can truly understand this....It is not apparent to an "outsider" or one from a different religion...and unless you know what Shiva is, you can't really say what he is not.

Aum Namah Shivaya

I agree completely with you about reading Shankaracharya's commentaries on the Upanishads and Pantanjali's Yoga Sutras (Asthanga Yoga). I've studied both and my spiritual mentor made extensive commentaries on Pantanjali. There are indeed "incredibly deep meanings behind them" both. Your suggestions are well taken.

Aum Namah Shivay

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

This is for you Necro,
Nirvana Shatakam
By Shankara
(788 - 820)

I am not mind, not intellect, not ego, not thought.

I am not the ears, the tongue, the nose or the eyes, or what they witness,
I am neither earth nor sky, not air nor light.

I am knowledge and bliss.
I am Shiva! I am Shiva!

I am not the breath of prana, nor its five currents.
I am not the seven elements, nor the five organs,
Nor am I the voice or hands or anything that acts.

I am knowledge and bliss.
I am Shiva! I am Shiva!

I have no hatred or preference, neither greed nor desire nor delusion.
Pride, conflict, jealousy -- these have no part of me.
Nothing do I own, nothing do I seek, not even liberation itself.

I am knowledge and bliss.
I am Shiva! I am Shiva!

I know neither virtue nor vice, neither pleasure nor pain.
I know no sacred chants, no holy places, no scriptures, no rituals.
I know neither the taste nor the taster.

I am knowledge and bliss.
I am Shiva! I am Shiva!

I fear not death. I doubt neither my being nor my place.
I have no father or mother; I am unborn.
I have no relatives, no friends. I have no guru and no devotees.

I am knowledge and bliss.
I am Shiva! I am Shiva!

Free from doubt, I am formless.
With knowledge, in knowledge, I am everywhere, beyond perception.
I am always the same. Not free, not trapped -- I am.

I am knowledge and bliss.
I am Shiva! I am Shiva!

Truly, I am Shiva, pure awareness.
Shivo Ham! Shivo Ham!

I love that Shiva song composed by Shankaracharya. Here is my favorite musical version of it.

In the "Show More" portion of the video link, one can see both the Sanskrit and the English translation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHWCnqlBBlo

[SoulGenesis]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I agree completely with you about reading Shankaracharya's commentaries on the Upanishads and Pantanjali's Yoga Sutras (Asthanga Yoga). I've studied both and my spiritual mentor made extensive commentaries on Pantanjali. There are indeed "incredibly deep meanings behind them" both. Your suggestions are well taken.

Aum Namah Shivay

Where I completely agree with Hinduism is the concept of "Atman/Brahman", i.e. Brahman being the infinite truth and Atman being the limited truth which is represented by a soul. A single soul is an individual being that never can be all-knowing and omnipotent. But through being transparent and sharing everything, we can be ONE, but of course not the complete Brahman. That's still subject to evolution which we cannot know when it is finished. But we didn't even start the evolution of intelligent life. So Shiva might be the same as "the Great Flood"/Noah since he's being regarded as the destroyer, so maybe the Om^^ega and the Alpha.

This is a nice video (these boots are made for walkin') (-;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRSz7FECKYc

[SoulGenesis]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I love that Shiva song composed by Shankaracharya. Here is my favorite musical version of it.

In the "Show More" portion of the video link, one can see both the Sanskrit and the English translation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHWCnqlBBlo

I'd say I seek liberation through spiritual maturity which is pure reason, i.e. moral/holistic intellect.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by SoulGenesis

So, it is questions about what she believes is the truth. If her truth is better than mine then she can provide the answers. What's the problem? It's a chance. ;-)

Wow, this thread escalated quickly.

Basically, the Hindu Forum is my "Home" on SF...It is where I live and rest, because it resonates with my heart, my culture, upbringing and the values that I personally hold. For me (and many others), Hinduism is not just a "belief" but a total way of existence.

Now, I do not go into the Christian, Buddhist, Judaism, Islam etc forum expounding Hinduism..oh no.. because that is where they live...that is their Home on SF.

The problem with many people, is that they go to a certain place...A certain country...A person's house that already has established "rules" and because they disagree with them or seek to infiltrate the area to begin the slow change from within, they start bringing in their own beliefs and lifestyles, lobbying the "rulemakers" and causing general anarchy.

When the bottom line is, if you don't like this thread, disagree with everything etc, you can always leave... because you are playing in MY "Ball Park" now and I did not come to you...You came to me, so I get to set the tone of this whole interaction. Thank you.

Aum Namah Shivaya

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by SoulGenesis

Where I completely agree with Hinduism is the concept of "Atman/Brahman", i.e. Brahman being the infinite truth and Atman being the limited truth which is represented by a soul. A single soul is an individual being that never can be all-knowing and omnipotent. But through being transparent and sharing everything, we can be ONE, but of course not the complete Brahman. That's still subject to evolution which we cannot know when it is finished. But we didn't even start the evolution of intelligent life. So Shiva might be the same as "the Great Flood"/Noah since he's being regarded as the destroyer, so maybe the Om^^ega and the Alpha.

This is a nice video (these boots are made for walkin') (-;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRSz7FECKYc

Yikes! Way to butcher an amazing George Harrison song.
https://youtu.be/q2dMSfmUJec

However, you want Bob Marley eh? Please allow me to show you my favorite Bob Marley song.

https://youtu.be/ia6Tvpj6dPw

Aum Namah Shivaya.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by SoulGenesis

I'd say I seek liberation through spiritual maturity which is pure reason, i.e. moral/holistic intellect.

Did that already and it didn't work...but maybe I am just "spiritually immature". Problem is, I can't find anybody out there who is "spiritually mature" enough either to help me. In fact, I am pretty much done with reason, mind, logic, intellect, philosophy and ethics... because who cares if there is an elephant in the room? As long as it doesn't s*** on me, I'm all good.

Now, I like Atma Shatakham by Adi Shankaracharya...and he can get to say " I am Shiva" because he basically was.

I still have huge problems with saying " I am Shiva" because I am a Shiva Bhakta and becoming "that which I love" is too much of a huge step for me to take in this lifetime..So maybe in the next one...or the one after that...There is no rush..So anything anybody else could ever possibly say to me in regards will make absolutely no difference to me because I am just "not ready yet".

Meanwhile...There is a song I really like that was put out by the Zoarostrian band called Thoushaltnot which takes Within Without You to a whole new level...enjoy.
https://youtu.be/YB1zc9Bblsc

Aum Namah Shivaya

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by SoulGenesis

Where I completely agree with Hinduism is the concept of "Atman/Brahman", i.e. Brahman being the infinite truth and Atman being the limited truth which is represented by a soul. A single soul is an individual being that never can be all-knowing and omnipotent. But through being transparent and sharing everything, we can be ONE, but of course not the complete Brahman. That's still subject to evolution which we cannot know when it is finished. But we didn't even start the evolution of intelligent life. So Shiva might be the same as "the Great Flood"/Noah since he's being regarded as the destroyer, so maybe the Om^^ega and the Alpha.

This is a nice video (these boots are made for walkin') (-;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRSz7FECKYc

When one is pure of heart ("transparent and all sharing" in your terminology), one becomes an instrument of THAT which lies beyond and, in that sense, becomes ONE with it as you duly noted. When one gets even a glimpse of THAT, one is in a better position to assess the omnipotence and all-knowing points that you raised as the power flows through one's being.

Nice post.