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  #1  
Old 17-06-2019, 05:34 AM
MattMVS7 MattMVS7 is offline
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An example that shows how cruel it is for god to allow suffering

If there was a person who could live millions of years, due to advanced technology, and that person was hidden from humanity, where he's hooked up to a machine that gives him nightmares for his entire existence, then I bet he'd be left to suffer all alone. He'd just suffer from nightmares over and over again for millions of years, and no angel would come down to rescue him. Neither would god do anything about it. That just shows how cruel and unloving it is for god, and these heavenly, angelic beings, to allow suffering.

If people think it's cruel enough for god to allow suffering upon humans, who have very limited lifespans on Earth, then imagine how cruel it would be to allow someone to suffer, non stop, for millions of years. If there was somehow a way a person could live and suffer, all alone, for millions of years on Earth, then I bet he'd be allowed to suffer all that time. I can't say for certain if god, and these heavenly beings, would allow that person to suffer for that long. But, it's quite possible.
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Old 17-06-2019, 06:13 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattMVS7
If there was a person who could live millions of years, due to advanced technology, and that person was hidden from humanity, where he's hooked up to a machine that gives him nightmares for his entire existence, then I bet he'd be left to suffer all alone. He'd just suffer from nightmares over and over again for millions of years, and no angel would come down to rescue him. Neither would god do anything about it. That just shows how cruel and unloving it is for god, and these heavenly, angelic beings, to allow suffering.

If people think it's cruel enough for god to allow suffering upon humans, who have very limited lifespans on Earth, then imagine how cruel it would be to allow someone to suffer, non stop, for millions of years. If there was somehow a way a person could live and suffer, all alone, for millions of years on Earth, then I bet he'd be allowed to suffer all that time. I can't say for certain if god, and these heavenly beings, would allow that person to suffer for that long. But, it's quite possible.
All of that is a hypothetical situation (unless you are a Christian discussing Hell, of course).

If you, or anybody else, believes that God is cruel, unjust, sadistic etc here's an idea... worship Satan instead!

However if that doesn't appeal to you, you could always become an Atheist, which would circumvent the whole matter entirely.

I just tire of all the questions beginning with "why does God....?" How the heck would a human being know?

Better off just asking God.
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  #3  
Old 17-06-2019, 07:03 AM
Starman Starman is offline
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Suffering comes from ignorance, not from God. God does not allow suffering rather human beings allow suffering,
and God gives us the free will to do as we please with the human state of being that we have.

Our lack of healthcare for everyone allows suffering, our economic and political systems allows suffering, our
cultural and societal tenets allows suffering, the way we think allows us to suffer, etc., etc., etc., etc. These are
things created by man, not by God.

Joy and complete fulfillment is inside of every human being, but most people pursue material wealth and sensory
stimulation for their fulfillment. Happiness is and inside job and often it takes many decades for people to find it,
if they find it at all.

If a person is having nightmares that is their subconscious trying to tell them something; nightmares just don't
come out of nowhere. People have to get to know their own mind, their own emotions, etc., if they truly want
to be happy. Of course, this is just my opinion.
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Old 17-06-2019, 08:17 AM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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***

My understanding is that the Divine energy being Love exalted employs no force ... obvious, since love is voluntary. Therefore, we are granted free will so that we may choose ourselves to connect ... as love in love with love.

Now, since we are deluded into believing that our form is separate, we look to our own welfare. The fears & desires having roots in attachment to the external illusions lead to suffering. As such, we are responsible for our own fate.

We may however at anytime exit delusion in an instant and be free of the imagined limitations we have ourselves created. We must choose to do so however. Voluntarily.

***
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  #5  
Old 17-06-2019, 03:15 PM
MattMVS7 MattMVS7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
Suffering comes from ignorance, not from God. God does not allow suffering rather human beings allow suffering,
and God gives us the free will to do as we please with the human state of being that we have.

Our lack of healthcare for everyone allows suffering, our economic and political systems allows suffering, our
cultural and societal tenets allows suffering, the way we think allows us to suffer, etc., etc., etc., etc. These are
things created by man, not by God.

Joy and complete fulfillment is inside of every human being, but most people pursue material wealth and sensory
stimulation for their fulfillment. Happiness is and inside job and often it takes many decades for people to find it,
if they find it at all.

If a person is having nightmares that is their subconscious trying to tell them something; nightmares just don't
come out of nowhere. People have to get to know their own mind, their own emotions, etc., if they truly want
to be happy. Of course, this is just my opinion.

Let me make myself more clear. If there was a way a person could literally be trapped in a state of agonizing, physical torture, and/or mental torture, that would last for millions of years, then he'd be allowed to suffer all that time, and god, or these heavenly beings, would do nothing about it. You say human beings have the free will to get themselves out of scenarios where they suffer. But, that isn't always the case. The example I have given would be a situation where a person literally remains trapped in a state of suffering for millions of years, with no way out. Lastly, as for nightmares, there might be a way to artifically induce them through future technology.
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Old 17-06-2019, 03:53 PM
Dargor Dargor is offline
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Just wondering, do you personally believe in god or are you questioning him from an atheist's pont of view?
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  #7  
Old 17-06-2019, 07:38 PM
lemex lemex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker
***

My understanding is that the Divine energy being Love exalted employs no force ... obvious, since love is voluntary. Therefore, we are granted free will so that we may choose ourselves to connect ... as love in love with love.

Now, since we are deluded into believing that our form is separate, we look to our own welfare. The fears & desires having roots in attachment to the external illusions lead to suffering. As such, we are responsible for our own fate.

We may however at anytime exit delusion in an instant and be free of the imagined limitations we have ourselves created. We must choose to do so however. Voluntarily. ***
This is my understanding as well. Both God and Humans allow suffering but for different reasons. For me, it's more about the making of suffering. I am less concerned with suffering God allows but not suffering Humans allow. To say God does not allow suffering then says we do not recognize suffering. God merely does not change suffering, where humans are suppose to recognize what suffering is, they also cause suffering, allowing it, and must be willing to change it. People will try avoiding suffering by allowing it is what I have observed.
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  #8  
Old 17-06-2019, 07:40 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattMVS7
Let me make myself more clear. If there was a way a person could literally be trapped in a state of agonizing, physical torture, and/or mental torture, that would last for millions of years, then he'd be allowed to suffer all that time, and god, or these heavenly beings, would do nothing about it. You say human beings have the free will to get themselves out of scenarios where they suffer. But, that isn't always the case. The example I have given would be a situation where a person literally remains trapped in a state of suffering for millions of years, with no way out. Lastly, as for nightmares, there might be a way to artifically induce them through future technology.

I don't understand the point of this. You put forward a hypothetical situation which has no basis in reality and then come to some conclusion about what god would or would not do in this hypothetical situation.

This is not an example that shows how cruel it is for God to allow suffering because it has nothing to do with the real world. If you want to make a point about the nature of suffering and the actions/inactions of God/heavenly beings, why not focus on the real world?

Peace.
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  #9  
Old 17-06-2019, 08:52 PM
MattMVS7 MattMVS7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
I don't understand the point of this. You put forward a hypothetical situation which has no basis in reality and then come to some conclusion about what god would or would not do in this hypothetical situation.

This is not an example that shows how cruel it is for God to allow suffering because it has nothing to do with the real world. If you want to make a point about the nature of suffering and the actions/inactions of God/heavenly beings, why not focus on the real world?

Peace.

It just makes one wonder if god really would be cruel and unloving enough to allow that person to suffer for millions of years.
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  #10  
Old 17-06-2019, 08:57 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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I still don't understand the point because it is all an imaginary situation.

Peace.
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