A true spiritual master's opinion always resonates with a truespiritual seeker's one

Not a problem at all, Anala

Thanks,

JL

[Ascension]

Originally Posted by JustBe

I will take note of that ...

[Busby]

Originally Posted by wstein

IF ONLY we actually knew 'nothing', then we would not be in this situation ...

On a more serious take: knowing is not important. Even in spiritual teachings, 'being' supersedes knowing (and doing). For the incarnate, being is sufficient, no need to know. Be that which you are, the rest will take care of itself.

I didn't really want to say 'I know nothing', I'm a bit fed up with clichés.

On a more serious take: knowing is not important for you but very important for me. My need is just as valid as yours.

'Being' is the only thing we know, no-one can tell us anything other, we'll only 'believe' 'it' when we experience it.

Spiritual teachings have the odour of confusion. That's why we need to know.

[running]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

After coming off the back of the Ekhart Tolle thread and then noticing Sadhguru charging $1,400 for a 2 day yoga intensive in Melbourne...*spiritual people who seek out 'true masters' must also be very wealthy* (sarcasm).

It seems that there are just as many "true spiritual masters" as there are "true spiritual seekers".

Each person's 'spiritual needs' are different and I would love to have $1 for every time I have heard; "you should listen to THIS spiritual master, Shivani...he is SO enlightened and speaks the truth!"

So, I listen to him and just go "meh...he's okay I guess"...apparently, whatever he had to say resonated with the 'soul voice' of the one who recommended him to me, but it didn't resonate with mine...and meanwhile, my 'soul voice' yawns and goes "how boring - NEXT".

What am I missing here?

energetically i can resonate. from the mind i mirror similar thoughts that you brought up.

[zorkchop]

A True Spiritual Master will recognize where the student is . . . will offer a few nudges or offerings as to what that student will encounter if and when that individual grows beyond where s/he is . . . the True Master will then encounter resistance by the student taking any number of avenues . . . and then the True Master will back off and let the individual learn by the greatest Teacher of All . . . LIFE. The Master will let any number of lifetimes scour the individual in the hopes that the said individual will listen next time. This resistance is difficult enough to deal with when confronting just the mental / emotional stances of an individual.

The number of people who are bold enough, adventurous enough, and willing to take the risks involved to even barely explore beyond the limits of their current state of consciousness . . . the number of people is very, VERY small. Sorry . . . that’s just the way it is. I don’t make the rules. I didn’t learn this the “easy” way.

People will recognize as “true” only that which they currently believe and already accept as true . . . no matter the “feeling” . . . no matter the “sensation” . . . no matter the tingle.

The human state of consciousness . . . coupled with ego / vanity . . . will absolutely *demand* that TRUTH is this or that. Certainly . . . it IS “this or that” . . . but it is NOT realized until the individual has unfolded enough to recognize IT . . . and then . . . there is always another step to take . . . a bit more to learn . . . a slight revision to complete . . . and to continue to ever-expand . . . to ever-grow . . . to ever-unfold.

We have ALL heard . . . “I KNOW the TRUTH” . . . from others . . . forever. We have ALL found that statement to fall way short of actual TRUTH. Disappointment builds . . . resentment grows . . . suspicion prevails . . . the Path is NOT easy.

VERY few people actually know where they are on the Path . . . so . . . due to ego and the basic human state of consciousness . . . those who can throw around a few terms and use dance steps to dodge basic questions and revelations all tend to believe that they are VERY advanced. In the mental worlds . . . they may be. To go beyond the mind is not as easy as “stopping the mind” or “going within” or “demanding that s/he knows.”

Thankfully . . . and mercifully . . . there are “signposts” as to where one is . . . and there are actual recognizable “signs” of being “beyond the mind” . . . of “viewing from Soul.” To find out what these signposts are and to then rely upon them and trust them . . . isa other story altogether. It is very simple . . . but it is NOT easy.

One principle you can take to the bank . . . if it is easily found . . . if it is highly promoted . . . if it is publicly popular . . . if it is widely accepted . . . if there are monasteries and schools filled with people . . . you can just bet that it may be helpful but it is extremely limited . . . mostly to the mental areas. Too go beyond the mind . . . takes work . . . effort . . . risk . . . dedication . . . commitment . . . persistence . . . discipline . . . courage . . . strength . . . etc. These necessary and vital virtues are NOT taught or promoted in these worlds. Most often . . . they are downplayed as unnecessary. Maybe . . . just maybe . . . some VERY simple levels of these virtues . . . some of them . . . maybe ARE necessary. Later . . . one finds out just how vital they really are.

The point of this is NOT to discourage. The way forward . . . is to find someone who has “been” to where you want to go . . . and then listen to him / her. If you wish to take a trip over to China and wish to know where the best places to go are . . . you will locate and talk to someone who has been there or whose job it is to know the best places . . . such as a travel agent. If you wish to know the best stock in which to invest . . . you will find an analyst who has succeeded. If you wish to learn a foreign language . . . you will find someone who speaks the language and is willing to help you.

If you wish to grow beyond where you are . . . find someone . . . and listen to him / her. If not . . . then dig in your heels and resort to “I already know . . . “ or “I don’t agree” . . . and wait it out . . . for lifetimes. The real question is . . . do you trust another to give you guidance . . . or do you trust yourself to be able to deal with what you are given. Can you recognize what will broaden . . . or add to the limitations?

This is one of the very subtle but significant reasons why the Path takes so long to “Master.” Few really know where they are . . . they cannot recognize where they are to “go” from where they are . . . ( since they haven’t been “there” ) . . . and are incredibly reluctant to try anything that is not already accepted as “The Real Way” by some well-recognized group.

Therefore . . . it all ends up bottlenecked in the mental realms.

It is a very slow process.

Not really; there are many great masters but it's also true you have to know what you're looking for.

Anyone who lords their knowledge over you is probably to be avoided though, imo



Namaste,

JL

[zorkchop]

Janielee . . .

Absolutely perfect response(s).

One . . . “great many masters” . . . those people are . . . masters of what? What is their mastery? ARE they masters . . . or are we told they are masters? What is a true master . . . and THAT Master would be Master of what?

Isn’t the Path . . . adventurous and interesting? Always something new to consider.

As far as knowing what one is looking for . . . I believe much of that was addressed above.

My entry was in NO way in response to what anyone had said on this entire thread. I do not know if you took it that way. My entry was simply generic “stuff” about True Masters and what They can and cannot do.

Lastly . . . please reconsider your beliefs and attitudes when it comes to ANY-one . . . myself and all others included . . . LORDING their knowledge over you. See how the mind works? “Hey . . . I don’t want to believe this ‘cause this person is lording their info over me.”

Um . . . what ?

To offer simple info concerning what a person WILL have to encounter as they continue to walk the Path . . . is “lording their info over another?” If that is the case . . . this forum board ought to shut down.

In this way . . . and countless other ways . . . your own mind / beliefs / attitudes will stop you from at least *considering* what is being told to you by whomever. Resistance flares . . . then the info is dismissed. Which is fine . . . obviously . . . and is the choice of the individual.

Since so much of the discovery on the Path is by trial-and-error up until the very latter steps . . . it is no one else’s choice to wait for another 50 lifetimes to learn what could have been learned in the present . . . those 50 lifetimes being spent in slowly dismissing and revising limiting beliefs, attitudes, opinions, etc. Such is the way of the path . . . and it works in this way . . . and is exceptionally effective in doing so. We each learn according to our willingness to learn. Mistakes will always be made along the way. How else is one to learn . . . what is true . . . and what is not?

No . . . I did not take your responses personally. They are . . . however . . . reflective of the conventional approaches of many. They are typical Mental Dismissive Reactions #1-048JK9046kB68403. ( HeH ) Obviously . . . there are many . . . MANY more.

I have no beef against you personally . . . nor of what you said. A book could be written on the ways people push away what would truly benefit them if they would only listen . . . consider . . . and experiment. I too am guilty of this . . . I have been caught in these scenarios many times in the past and often catch myself even now . . . unless I watch closely. Your reactions are completely normal and typical. Even from that statement alone . . . one can make a new choice . . . to continue . . . or to revise and explore.

Enough said.

Originally Posted by kishore

Yes a person who is truly on spiritual path no matter where he is in his spiritual journey easily identifies or agrees with the opinion of true spiritual master because a true spiritual seeker must have had glimpses of soul's voice although he is yet to integrate or stabilize the soul in him permanently, just for knowledge.

Last autumn I watched the swallows wheeling and diving in the carpark, the wind currents throwing their small, deilicate bodies across the sky. There was one that caught my attention in particular, his flying was so flaky I named him the Flaky Flier. He would swoop so close I could hear his wings beat and hear his chirping, he was like a child set loose in a playground. We spent an age together that day, and when it was over I wished him well on his Journey because I didn't think he was going to make it.

Summer returned and so did he, and throughout the summer our 'relationship' continued. Along came Mrs Flaky. who was a little more delicate than he was but certainly graceful in her movements. Then came Flaky Jnr, he inherited at least some of his mother's grace.

I never did become conscious of what the swallow was conscious of, was I nothing more than an obstacle to practice his flying skills on or was he conscious of me as a being in my own right, was he conscious of him as a being in his own right? It taught me more than I had ever learned in these forums, it taught me that I'm not conscious of what I'm not conscious of and how perspective shouldn't be lost. Sometimes we are taught the most Spiritual things by the least Spiritual of teachers.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by zorkchop

Janielee . . .

Absolutely perfect response(s).

One . . . “great many masters” . . . those people are . . . masters of what? What is their mastery? ARE they masters . . . or are we told they are masters? What is a true master . . . and THAT Master would be Master of what?

Isn’t the Path . . . adventurous and interesting? Always something new to consider.

Something in the way you move is like no other..

[zorkchop]

JustBe . . .

I am gonna have to claim ignorance here . . . or maybe just density. I have no idea what you mean by your comment but it sounds intriguing. I'm not taking it as a negative altho I could be wrong. Care to expand on that so I understand a bit more of what you meant?