How soul came into existence

[peteyzen]

well put necta, and Yes i totally agree, that is the nature of souls

Originally Posted by 123music

Yesterday when i was thinking about WHY and HOW of this universe and mankind, i got a question in my mind.

How soul came into existence? I believe a human being is an incarnated soul which will allow it to sense the energy that is driving the universe.

My question is how and when soul came to existence in this universe? Also are there any categories for the soul like animal soul, material soul etc? Do plants also have soul?

For thousands of years, religious men have been convinced the we exist in and eternal oscillating universe, science will one day catch up and prove this to be a fact.

Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

The days and nights of Brahma are called Manvantara or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day,’ which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. ‘Manvantara,’ is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, ‘Pralaya,’ is the evening that proceeds the next creative day. The six periods of Creation and the seventh day of rest in which we now exist are referred to in the book of Genesis as the generations of the universe.

The English word “Generation,” is translated from the Hebrew “toledoth” which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as ‘births,’ or ‘descendants,’ such as “These are the generations of Adam,” or “these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; These are the generations of the Universe or the heavens and earth, etc. And the ‘Great Day’ in which the seven generations of the universe are eternally repeated, is the eternal cosmic period, or the eighth eternal day in which those who attain to perfection are allowed to enter, where they shall be surrounded by great light and they shall experience eternal peace, while those who do not attain to perfection are cast back into the refining fires of the seven physical cycles that perpetually revolve within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle.

A series of worlds following one upon the other,-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it. Every universe from the first to the last, from the smallest to the greatest, which have been created throughout the eons of eternity, still exist in their independent Space-Time positions within the eternal and boundless cosmos.

The New international Version, the Scofield Referrence Bible, and the Companion Bible, all note that the phase in Genesis 1: 2; The earth was formless and void (Having neither shape or mass) should be correctly translated, “The earth became without form and void.” The Hebrew word “Hayah” translated “was,” means “To become, occur, come to pass, Be.” (Vines Complete Expository of Old and New Testament Words, 1985. “To Be.”)

I am sure that one day our scientific community will prove those laymen to have been correct in their belief.

Another universe may have preceded ours, study finds. May 14th, 2006. Courtesy Penn State University and World Science staff.

Three physicists say they have done calculations suggesting that before the birth of our universe, which is expanding, there was an earlier universe that was shrinking.

The results stem from a theory that claims the fabric of space and time is made up of minuscule, indivisible bits, much as matter is.

Scientists believe our cosmos began in a sort of explosion called the Big Bang, when everything that exists---which had previously been packed into one infinitely dense point---burst outward.

The universe is still expanding according to this view, because it was born expanding.

According to some proposals, the Big Bang is a repeating cycle. Universes might expand, then shrink back to a point, then expand again. Thus the “Bang” would be really more like a bounce.

The idea is appealing in some ways, but scientists have found it far from easy to test. Einstein’s Theory of Relativity, a key basis for the Big Bang theory, is silent on what happened before that event.

“General relativity can be used to describe the universe back to a point at which matter becomes so dense that it’s equations don’t hold up,” said Abhay Ashtekar, director of the Gravitational Physics and Geometry at Penn State University in University Park, Penn.

To go further, physicists must use tools Einstein didn’t have, he added. Ashtekar and two post-doctoral researchers developed such tools through a combination of Quantum physics- the science of subatomic particles—and general relativity, which describes the large-scale structure of space and time.

They found that before the Big Bang, there was a contracting universe. Other than the fact it was shrinking, they added, it was similar to ours in terms of the geometry of its space and time, or spacetime, as cosmologists call it since Einstein found the two are interwoven.

“In place of a classical Big Bang there is in fact a quantum bounce,” said Ashtekar. “We were so surprised by the finding,” he added, that the team repeated the calculations for months to include different possible values of some numbers representing the current universe. But the results kept pointing to a bounce.

The findings appear in the current issue of the research journal Physical Review Letters.

While the general idea of another, pre-Big Bang universe isn’t new, Ashtekar said, this is the first mathematical study that systematically establishes its existence and deduces properties of its spacetime geometry.

The notion that spacetime has a geometry involves the idea that it can be curved or flat. A “flat” spacetime is one in which geometry works as we normally expect; for example, parallel lines never meet. But Einstein found that material objects deform this flatness, introducing curvature.

To arrive at their pre-existing universe finding, Ashtekar’s group used loop quantum gravity, a theory that seeks to reconcile General relativity with quantum physics. These two seemingly fundamental theories are otherwise contradictory in some ways.

Loop quantum gravity, which was pioneered at Ashtekar’s institute, proposes that spacetime has a discrete “atomic” structure, as opposed to being a continuous sheet, as Einstein, along with most us, assumed.

In loop quantum gravity, space is thought of as woven from one-dimensional “threads.” The continuum picture remains mostly valid as an approximation. But near the Big Bang, this fabric is violently torn so that it’s discrete, or quantum, nature becomes important. One outcome of this is that gravity becomes repulsive instead of attractive, Ashetkar argued; the result is the Big Bounce.

Paul Steinhardt of Princeton University, a cosmologist who has explored some related concepts, wrote in an email that the new research “Supports, in a general way, the idea that the Big Bang need not be the beginning of space and time.”

The universe “may have undergone one or more bangs in its past history,” he added.

Steinhardt and colleagues have also proposed a bounce of sorts, but it’s different. It could turn out that the two scenarios are equivalent at some deep level, but that’s not known, he added. Steinhardt‘s scenario makes use of string theory, another attempt to reconcile General Relativity with quantum physics.

Some versions of string theory portray our visible universe as a three -dimensional space embedded in an invisible space having more dimensions. Our zone, called a braneworld-the word comes from its similarity to a sort of membrane-could periodically bounce into another, parallel braneworld.

Such an event might look to us, stuck in a few dimensions as we are, as a Big Bang. “I don’t know if Ashetkar’s case translates into a bounce between braneworlds like we are describing,” Steinhardt wrote. But by his estimate, this cataclysm won’t take place for another roughly 300 billion years—so there is hopefully plenty of time to answer the question.

Originally Posted by 123music

Yesterday when i was thinking about WHY and HOW of this universe and mankind, i got a question in my mind.

How soul came into existence? I believe a human being is an incarnated soul which will allow it to sense the energy that is driving the universe.

My question is how and when soul came to existence in this universe? Also are there any categories for the soul like animal soul, material soul etc? Do plants also have soul?

For thousands of years, religious men have been convinced the we exist in and eternal oscillating universe, science will one day catch up and prove this to be a fact.

Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

The days and nights of Brahma are called Manvantara or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day,’ which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. ‘Manvantara,’ is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, ‘Pralaya,’ is the evening that proceeds the next creative day. The six periods of Creation and the seventh day of rest in which we now exist are referred to in the book of Genesis as the generations of the universe.

The English word “Generation,” is translated from the Hebrew “toledoth” which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as ‘births,’ or ‘descendants,’ such as “These are the generations of Adam,” or “these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; These are the generations of the Universe or the heavens and earth, etc. And the ‘Great Day’ in which the seven generations of the universe are eternally repeated, is the eternal cosmic period, or the eighth eternal day in which those who attain to perfection are allowed to enter, where they shall be surrounded by great light and they shall experience eternal peace, while those who do not attain to perfection are cast back into the refining fires of the seven physical cycles that perpetually revolve within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle.

A series of worlds following one upon the other,-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it. Every universe from the first to the last, from the smallest to the greatest, which have been created throughout the eons of eternity, still exist in their independent Space-Time positions within the eternal and boundless cosmos.

The New international Version, the Scofield Referrence Bible, and the Companion Bible, all note that the phase in Genesis 1: 2; The earth was formless and void (Having neither shape or mass) should be correctly translated, “The earth became without form and void.” The Hebrew word “Hayah” translated “was,” means “To become, occur, come to pass, Be.” (Vines Complete Expository of Old and New Testament Words, 1985. “To Be.”)

I am sure that one day our scientific community will prove those laymen to have been correct in their belief.

Another universe may have preceded ours, study finds. May 14th, 2006. Courtesy Penn State University and World Science staff.

Three physicists say they have done calculations suggesting that before the birth of our universe, which is expanding, there was an earlier universe that was shrinking.

The results stem from a theory that claims the fabric of space and time is made up of minuscule, indivisible bits, much as matter is.

Scientists believe our cosmos began in a sort of explosion called the Big Bang, when everything that exists---which had previously been packed into one infinitely dense point---burst outward.

The universe is still expanding according to this view, because it was born expanding.

According to some proposals, the Big Bang is a repeating cycle. Universes might expand, then shrink back to a point, then expand again. Thus the “Bang” would be really more like a bounce.

The idea is appealing in some ways, but scientists have found it far from easy to test. Einstein’s Theory of Relativity, a key basis for the Big Bang theory, is silent on what happened before that event.

“General relativity can be used to describe the universe back to a point at which matter becomes so dense that it’s equations don’t hold up,” said Abhay Ashtekar, director of the Gravitational Physics and Geometry at Penn State University in University Park, Penn.

To go further, physicists must use tools Einstein didn’t have, he added. Ashtekar and two post-doctoral researchers developed such tools through a combination of Quantum physics- the science of subatomic particles—and general relativity, which describes the large-scale structure of space and time.

They found that before the Big Bang, there was a contracting universe. Other than the fact it was shrinking, they added, it was similar to ours in terms of the geometry of its space and time, or spacetime, as cosmologists call it since Einstein found the two are interwoven.

“In place of a classical Big Bang there is in fact a quantum bounce,” said Ashtekar. “We were so surprised by the finding,” he added, that the team repeated the calculations for months to include different possible values of some numbers representing the current universe. But the results kept pointing to a bounce.

The findings appear in the current issue of the research journal Physical Review Letters.

While the general idea of another, pre-Big Bang universe isn’t new, Ashtekar said, this is the first mathematical study that systematically establishes its existence and deduces properties of its spacetime geometry.

The notion that spacetime has a geometry involves the idea that it can be curved or flat. A “flat” spacetime is one in which geometry works as we normally expect; for example, parallel lines never meet. But Einstein found that material objects deform this flatness, introducing curvature.

To arrive at their pre-existing universe finding, Ashtekar’s group used loop quantum gravity, a theory that seeks to reconcile General relativity with quantum physics. These two seemingly fundamental theories are otherwise contradictory in some ways.

Loop quantum gravity, which was pioneered at Ashtekar’s institute, proposes that spacetime has a discrete “atomic” structure, as opposed to being a continuous sheet, as Einstein, along with most us, assumed.

In loop quantum gravity, space is thought of as woven from one-dimensional “threads.” The continuum picture remains mostly valid as an approximation. But near the Big Bang, this fabric is violently torn so that it’s discrete, or quantum, nature becomes important. One outcome of this is that gravity becomes repulsive instead of attractive, Ashetkar argued; the result is the Big Bounce.

Paul Steinhardt of Princeton University, a cosmologist who has explored some related concepts, wrote in an email that the new research “Supports, in a general way, the idea that the Big Bang need not be the beginning of space and time.”

The universe “may have undergone one or more bangs in its past history,” he added.

Steinhardt and colleagues have also proposed a bounce of sorts, but it’s different. It could turn out that the two scenarios are equivalent at some deep level, but that’s not known, he added. Steinhardt‘s scenario makes use of string theory, another attempt to reconcile General Relativity with quantum physics.

Some versions of string theory portray our visible universe as a three -dimensional space embedded in an invisible space having more dimensions. Our zone, called a braneworld-the word comes from its similarity to a sort of membrane-could periodically bounce into another, parallel braneworld.

Such an event might look to us, stuck in a few dimensions as we are, as a Big Bang. “I don’t know if Ashetkar’s case translates into a bounce between braneworlds like we are describing,” Steinhardt wrote. But by his estimate, this cataclysm won’t take place for another roughly 300 billion years—so there is hopefully plenty of time to answer the question.


HOW DO YOU DELETE A DOUBLE UP?

The quantum of the electromagnetic energy that was spewed out in the trillions of degrees at the moment of the Big Bang, are waves that have zero mass and no electric charge and yet they carry angular and linear momentum.

That momentum is the animating principle which pervades the entire universal body which includes your body, which body is nothing but the gathering of those invisible waves.

Within that body, is all the information/spirit that has been gathered from all your ancestors, human and pre-human. If that physical enclosure of all your ancestral spirit was born without the sense of sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch etc, then YOU, “The mind/spirit,” who are the controlling godhead to that body, could never have begun to develop. That physical enclosure of all your ancestral spirit may be kept alive for a period of time, but it would be as a living vegetable and eventually die, without ever having developed a personality/godhead within it.

“YOU,” the mind/spirit, develop from all the experiences and information that is taken in through the senses of that body, which is but the animating waves that we perceive as the creation. When you die, and your body, which includes the brain matter, has all been returned to the universal elements from which it was created, all that remains of “YOU” is a shadow, or facsimile of you, which has been imprinted into the animating principle of the universe, or in other words, the universal soul/life-force.

After this universal body has descended into the seemingly bottomless pit, (Black Hole) all the information that has been gathered in this generation of the universe, which is gathered to all the spirit of its preceding ancestral generations, will express itself as another universal body in the image and likeness of the parental body, and unless the spirit that was gathered from your body, has not been separated from the universal soul, then you shall be reborn, or rather, resurrected within the next generational body of the universe, other wise, that portion of soul which is now yours, will have to go through the whole process again, in which it will develop a new body and a new mind/spirit.

Romans 1: 18-22; God’s anger is revealed from heaven against all the sin and evil of the people whose evil ways prevent the truth of God from being known. God punishes them, because what can be known about God is plain to them, for God himself has made it plain.
Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible qualities, both his eternal power and his divine nature have been clearly seen for he has made himself manifest in the universe itself. So those people have no excuse at all! They know God, but they do not give him the honour that belongs to him, nor do they thank him. Instead, their thoughts have become complete nonsense, and their empty minds are filled with darkness. They say they are wise, but they are fools, instead of worshiping the immortal God, they worship images made to look like mortal man, etc.

"The Word,” is not a good translation of “The Logos.”

All the information and experiences that are gathered through the senses of your body in the creation of “YOU” the mind/spirit, can be expressed as “WORDS,” or as art, or your creations. So too, all the information and experiences that is taken in through the senses of all the diverse life forms that the Logos becomes, and is gathered to that animating principle, which is the universal soul or life force that pervades the evolving Alpha/singularity, that has become this universal body, in which evolves the Omega, who is the supreme personality of Godhead, who, when this universe is condensed once again into the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small, singularity, express’s itself as a new universal body in the image and likeness of the body in which it had evolved.

Whether you wish to call the great Cosmic mind of shimmering invisible waves that we perceive as the universal body, "God, The Logos, or Brahman, etc," you are referring to the essential divine reality of the universe; the eternal evolving spirit/information, from which all being originates and to which all must return.

The Logos, which is all the gathered information that is later expressed, is much the same as, or rather, “Is the same” as Brahman, for the root to the word “Brahman originally meant “Speech.” Neither Brahman or the Logos express themselves as the “Spoken word/speech” but as another universal body in the image and likeness of its predecessor.

At the close of this cycle of universal activity, "Krishna/Christ," enters into "Brahman/The Logos," as the supreme personality of Godhead, “The Light of Man” all the information gathered from the Most High in the creation, who is the light and life in the Logos/Brahman.

[123music]

Hi S-Word,

First of all thanks a zillion for sharing beautiful and interesting scientific facts. I have few doubts from the post:

Originally Posted by S-word

In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.

1. what are the six forms of existence?

Originally Posted by S-word

So too, all the information and experiences that is taken in through the senses of all the diverse life forms that the Logos becomes, and is gathered to that animating principle, which is the universal soul or life force that pervades the evolving Alpha/singularity, that has become this universal body, in which evolves the Omega, who is the supreme personality of Godhead, who, when this universe is condensed once again into the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small, singularity, express’s itself as a new universal body in the image and likeness of the body in which it had evolved.

2. What is Alpha/singularity and the omega?

Originally Posted by S-word

Whether you wish to call the great Cosmic mind of shimmering invisible waves that we perceive as the universal body, "God, The Logos, or Brahman, etc..

3. If every thing in the universe is a science then how does the spirituality compete with the science. Also there are few laws set in the universe like good, bad, love, lust, compassion etc.Who might have framed all these?

[quote=123music]Hi S-Word,

First of all thanks a zillion for sharing beautiful and interesting scientific facts. I have few doubts from the post:



1. what are the six forms of existence?



2. What is Alpha/singularity and the omega?



3. If every thing in the universe is a science then how does the spirituality compete with the science. Also there are few laws set in the universe like good, bad, love, lust, compassion etc.Who might have framed all these?[/QUOTE]

Hi 123music. Thank you for this thread

As a Metaphysician I have discovered (intuited) that it is actually the reverse; everything in the Universe is SPIRITUAL and humanity has used the label "science" to help to categorize it within the human LINEAR mind of thinking/reasoning. The TRUTH of course is that there is far far more that we DON'T KNOW than what we do and, in yet another display of human arrogance humanity simply dismisses the entire discussion of Spirituality of the Universe as attached to a "God-like" entity which, of course, they would rather dismiss for something that can be "measured" or explained through humanity's "science".

The ultimate cruel joke, of course, is on us because we refuse (or simply cannot grasp) to accept that WE ARE GOD'S OURSELVES.

Namaste,

Bodhi

The existence of Soul is very simple.
Spiritual exercise to try:
"I am not the body; I exist independently of the body."

Disassociation meditation

1. Sit down in a darkened room, close your eyes, and go through your physical relaxation routine. Perform seven cycles of pranic breathing. Be aware of your whole body.

2. Put your attention on your feet and legs for several seconds. Continue pranic breathing, and then see and feel them disappear.

3. Put your attention on your waist, chest, and torso for several seconds. Continue pranic breathing, and then see and feel them disappear.

4. Put your attention on your hands and arms for several seconds. Continue pranic breathing, and then see and feel them disappear.

5. Put your attention on your head for several seconds. Continue pranic breathing, and then see and feel your head disappear.

6. Perform several cycles of pranic breathing as you are aware of your body "not being there."

7. Silently say, "I am not the body; I exist independently of the body." Be still for about 30 seconds.

8. Visualize a reddish-pink silhouette or outline of your physical body.

9. Silently say, "This is my emotional body. It contains any emotions that I have ever created or experienced. It allows me to feel and experience emotions and feelings, but it is not me."

10. See it fading and vaporizing into nothingness.

11. Silently say, "I am not the body, I am not the emotions. I exist independently of the physical and emotional bodies." Be still for about 30 seconds.

12. Visualize a bluish-yellowish silhouette or outline of your physical body.

13. Silently say, "This is my mental body. It contains any thoughts that I have ever created or experienced. It allows me to think and experience thoughts and ideas, but it is not me."

14. See it fading and vaporizing into nothingness.

15. Silently say, "I am not the body, I am not the emotions, nor the thoughts. I exist independently of the physical, emotional, and mental bodies." Be still for about 30 seconds.

16. Silently say, "I am not the body; the body is a vehicle of the soul. I am not my emotions or my thoughts; they are just products of the soul. I am not even the mind. The mind is the just the instrument of the soul. I am the soul! I am a being of Divine Intelligence, Divine Love, and Divine Power. I am connected to God. I am one with God. I am one with All. I am the Soul!ä Be still for three to five minutes and simply let go.

17. Slowly open your eyes, take several pranic breaths, and stretch.

[sandalwood]

the soul never came into existence. it has always been.
animals and plants dont have individual souls like humans have come up, the soul is one and omnipresent and blooms in every living thing

[Amilius777]

Souls are not created but produced from the Soul of God or the Holy Spirit. Every soul is a reflection and portion of God. The soul came into existence from eternity, a realm of no time and space.

Thus soul and spirit has no beginning and no end. The origin of the soul is a mystery that none of us can probe. It is almost as if before your soul existed, you existed in the Universal Consciousness as a thought and an idea.

[the_crow]

You are born without one, and many die without one.
Your purpose is to grow one, from scratch, that it might become one with The Soul, whereupon you set it free.