Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Hinduism

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 10-02-2012, 10:34 PM
oliness
Posts: n/a
 
Yes I believe grace is important as well. Devotion is our reaching to the Divine Ideal, and grace is the energy of that Ideal flowing back to us. I believe I have received energy transmissions from two great souls. One was from Amma (Her love is infinite and always transmitting to everyone) the other was from a meditation teacher who initiated me into a form of meditation.

In both these cases, the divine energy came and affected my being. Any genuine Guru or advanced soul can transmit that energy. In Christianity, Christ and the Holy Spirit transmit their grace to us. That has been very important to me in my own life as well.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-02-2012, 09:25 PM
peteyzen peteyzen is offline
Master
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: leicester
Posts: 1,562
  peteyzen's Avatar
yes I agree oliness, the purpose of avatars, is to transmit this grace to turbo charge our spiritual progress, and like u I have experienced this
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 13-02-2012, 06:09 PM
123music 123music is offline
Pathfinder
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 53
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oliness
Devotion isn't the only means, ethics is important as well. As I understand it, our karmas are the result of our vasanas. These are what drive us to have more experiences in samsara.

So our vasanas which create the karma to experience samsara are all of our desires which are not for moksha. Our selfish desire for ordinary worldly pleasure and the perpetuation of our separate existence continue to reinforce themselves; producing more vasanas and more karma. This means that we do not attain moksha because we don't really _want_ it. We may have some desire for release but our desire for pleasure is still so strong that it takes us away from moksha.

By devotion or meditation (or any of the 4 main yogic paths) we can get closer to moksha. But it will only happen once our vasanas to experience samsara are removed. This occurs with the extinction of selfish cravings.

Yes..Well said.Vasanas will help us to monitor only kriyaman karma. Correct me if i am wrong.
But if the result of sanchit and prarabdha karmas (which is not in our control) is trying to take away from our real goal (i.e.attaining moksha), how do we balance ourselves?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 13-02-2012, 06:56 PM
peteyzen peteyzen is offline
Master
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: leicester
Posts: 1,562
  peteyzen's Avatar
But if the result of sanchit and prarabdha karmas (which is not in our control) is trying to take away from our real goal (i.e.attaining moksha), how do we balance ourselves? originally [posted by 123 music
this is where grace comes in. the divine has the power to alter any karma. immerse your self in the divine, whichever aspect appeals, be it god or avatar, or simply go direct straight to paramatman. However, some karma will need to be played out, but the divine will weave it into your progress.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 13-02-2012, 07:10 PM
oliness
Posts: n/a
 
Ramana Maharshi says:


"The Ordainer controls the fate of souls in accordance with their past deeds, their prarabdha karma. Whatever is destined not to happen will not happen, try how hard you may. Whatever is destined to happen will happen, do what you may to stop it. This is certain. The best course therefore is for one to be resigned."

So if the ripening of our prarabdha karma occurs and it is negative, or if it is positive, we can still be resigned. By being resigned I understand being aware, being a witness, of whatever is happening. This is what Ramana taught - to abide in awareness and the Self will be realized. That is always possible whatever karma is ripening.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 18-02-2012, 09:23 AM
123music 123music is offline
Pathfinder
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 53
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oliness
Ramana Maharshi says:


Whatever is destined to happen will happen, do what you may to stop it. This is certain. The best course therefore is for one to be resigned."

Agreed.That's really true.
But i just got a query in my mind regarding all these karmas. Whatever karma a person is doing its all done as per his/her script written by god. Karmas in past or present life gets executed only as per this script. Since we all are children of god, why few scripts are written to do bad karmas and few are to do good?
Because good karmas will lead postive prarabdha and bad to negative prarabdha karmas. But here soul is neutral.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-03-2012, 02:27 AM
Joshua_G
Posts: n/a
 
Moksa means liberation. In other words, Moksa is Enlightenment.

What I found out is that there is one mandatory requirement to attain Moksa: wanting it more than anything else. There are many various paths, all of them are viable, none of them will liberate anyone who doesn't want liberation more than anything else.

In the words of Sri Sankaracarya, in his book Vivekacudamani (The Crest-Jewel of Discrimination), translated by Swami Turiyananda:

(11) Right action helps to purify the heart, but it does not give us direct perception of the Reality. The Reality is attained through discrimination, but not in the smallest degree even by ten million acts.

(27) Longing for liberation is the will to be free from the fetters of ignorance -- beginning with the ego-sense and so on, down to the physical body itself -- through realization of one's true nature.

(31) Among all means of liberation, devotion is supreme. To seek earnestly to know one's real nature -- this is said to be devotion.

(51) Children may free their father from his debts, but no other person can free a man from his bondage; he must do it himself.

(54) A clear vision of the Reality may be obtained only through our own eyes, when they have been opened by spiritual insight -- never through the eyes of some other seer. Through our own eyes we learn what the moon looks like; how could we learn this through the eyes of others?

(55) Those cords that bind us, because of our ignorance, our lustful desires and the fruits of our Karma -- how could anybody but ourselves untie them, even in the course of innumerable ages?

(56) Neither by the practice of Yoga or of Sankhya philosophy, nor by good works, nor by learning, does liberation come; but only through the realization that Atman and Brahman are one -- in no other way.

(59) Study of the scriptures is fruitless as long as Brahman has not been experienced. And when Brahman has been experienced, it is useless to read the scriptures.

(62) A sickness is not cured by saying the word "medicine". You must take the medicine. Liberation does not come by merely saying the word "Brahman". Brahman must be actually experienced.

(182) I tell you this: Have desire for liberation alone, not for anything else. Be resolute for liberation. …

(196) The seer, beyond all qualities, all actions -- the blissful Atman -- has taken this state of being "I" through ignorance only. It is not real. When ignorance comes to naught, it does not remain.

(223) This is the cause of liberation from the world -- the consciousness, the knowledge of the non-separateness of the self from the Supreme. By this knowledge, one attains that Bliss Eternal.

Hare OM!
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-03-2012, 10:13 AM
123music 123music is offline
Pathfinder
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 53
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua_G
(56) Neither by the practice of Yoga or of Sankhya philosophy, nor by good works, nor by learning, does liberation come; but only through the realization that Atman and Brahman are one -- in no other way.
What is Brahman?? Can you explain what exactly it is?
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-03-2012, 10:54 AM
Narcissus
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 123music
What is Brahman?? Can you explain what exactly it is?

You can not explain away Brahma and it is ineffable. We cannot contain in words because it is beyond words though there are plenty of scriptures on this they are only a guide to Brahma. You will have to find it for yourself and any endeavors to translate it into words become fruitless. The best scriptures that can demystify to some extent this mystic thing Brahma is the Veda and you cannot understand it without a Guru. And to come across a real Guru is another difficulty and yet do not despair and if you are really a seeker you will come upon the truth. I am myself a seeker
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-03-2012, 03:38 PM
Joshua_G
Posts: n/a
 
I agree with Narcissus about Brahman cannot be explained.
I don't agree with Narcissus about the need for a Guru.
Brahman can be understood only by experiencing Him/It, while no Guru can give us that experience. This is what Sri Sankaracarya says (and what others say).

In words, Brahman is the godhead -- the un-manifest, absolute, transcendent, all-pervading source of all manifest creation. Brahman is described as Sat-Chit-Ananda, which means pure being (or pure existence), pure consciousness and peace (wrongly translated as bliss).

BTW, Brahman and Brahma are two different things.
Brahman is the godhead, while Brahma is a God.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums