Zen - Notes & Questions

[psychoslice]

It doesn't matter if your an alcoholic, drug addict, murderer or whatever, its nothing to do with Zen, unless of course you believe you are the mind body.

[Silver]

Originally Posted by pre-dawn

If we are to belief the literature many of the Daoist sages loved their wine a little bit too much and too often.

Whatever he was partial to it did not seem to inhibit his ability to get Zen across in a fresh and understandable manner.
Judge what he wrote on its own merit, not who wrote it.

~~~quite right, pre-dawn.

[psychoslice]

Osho on Alan Watts - I love one statement of one of the most important people of the West, Alan Watts. He was a drunkard, but he was the man who introduced to the West the most essential parts of Zen and enlightenment. He wrote not as a scholar, but as a master. Before he was dying, he was still drinking and a disciple asked him, "Have you ever thought... if Buddha had seen you drinking alcohol, what do you think he would have thought about it?"
Alan Watts said, "There is no problem. I always drink in an enlightened way."

The question is not what you do, the question is how you do it. Yes, I accept Alan Watts' statement. There is a possibility of a man to drink alcohol in an enlightened way. Enlightenment should not have any limits. And it should not have a particular formula, a particular pattern that you have to follow.

Source - Osho Book "OM Mani Padme Hum"

[psychoslice]

[Silver]

I take it that's Mr. Alan Watts~
You really know how to ferret out these wonderful pics.

[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by Silvergirl

I take it that's Mr. Alan Watts~
You really know how to ferret out these wonderful pics.

Yea thats old Allan, he makes Enlightenment sound like fun and not boring like some so called Masters do lol.

Here's a quote I like that sums up Zen to me.

Once mortals see their nature, all attachments end.
Awareness isn't hidden. But you can only find it right now.
It's only now. If you really want to find the Way, don't hold on to anything.

(Bodhidharma)

[Perspective]

Thanks for your comments - it's good to get other perspectives, as Zen seems so confusing - so full of opposites...

Originally Posted by Racer X

Zen.......to stop thinking. ...
To experience everything at once without experiencing anything in particular.
Zen is NO JOKE!
It is ........
every joke!

Hi Racer,
I'm leaning more toward - joke - just because laughing is so fun!
Really, Zen reminds me of becoming child-like in the sense of - experiencing, thinking & feeling... all together & with joyful curiosity. But I could see how it could be misunderstood or misapplied...
(when it's supposed to be un-understood & unapplied...right? )

Pschoslice & Predawn -
Sometimes alcoholics are very honest & insightful...& other times they are so out in left field.
Being drunk discounts from one's merit in driving... one's judgment is impaired.
Wouldn't being drunk also detract from one's merit, who is teaching about self-discovery & unattachment?
No attachments...except for alcohol... It just seems hypocritical - or maybe in Zen - anything goes!

Elijah -
Realizing one's nature of constant change & continuity... then in a way, attachments (as in hang-ups) are released...
But it doesn't make sense, practically. I mean, no matter how enlightened you are, if someone you love passes on, you'll deeply miss & grieve for them because you were attached to them. Otherwise, that would seem cold & unfeeling.

[psychoslice]

Perspective, quote :Pschoslice & Predawn -
Sometimes alcoholics are very honest & insightful...& other times they are so out in left field.
Being drunk discounts from one's merit in driving... one's judgment is impaired.
Wouldn't being drunk also detract from one's merit, who is teaching about self-discovery & unattachment?
No attachments...except for alcohol... It just seems hypocritical - or maybe in Zen - anything goes!

But who said that Allan was attached to drinking, he may have know exactly what he was doing and enjoyed it, no attachment there at all. The body does what the body does, it has no concern for the Enlightened, you either want to look after it or not.

[Silver]

I for one would like to take a look at his work before I make a judgment call about whether his drinking affected his thinking and hence, his writings.