Can you do Pagan Rituals and not be Pagan ?

Originally Posted by Animus27

And what kind of evidence can you cite to support that? I've heard it a few times; but I've never really heard anything that validates it as much as people insinuate it does.

Read the instructions of Pope Gregory to Saint Augustine when he was sent on a mission to convert the Pagan English.

[onetruebeliever]

If one has a brain, can read and keeps an open mind, then one learns.

Originally Posted by Shelly

Read the instructions of Pope Gregory to Saint Augustine when he was sent on a mission to convert the Pagan English.

What? To prove that Easter has origins in Babylonia?

Originally Posted by onetruebeliever

If one has a brain, can read and keeps an open mind, then one learns.

Sure. But not everything you read is factual. Part of gaining knowledge is learning that not all opinions and ideas are equal.

So again, what evidence do you have?

[onetruebeliever]

First off, I do not believe everything I read is true. I read many things offering many sides, many ideas. When these start to overlap and I see the same thing over and over, I form an opinion. I also form my opinion based on life experience and observation - which I have considerably more life experience than you do.

You seem to be basing your belief off of the Venerable Bede's writings. He was a CHRISTIAN monk. So how unbiased do you think that is? The word pashca means and never changes - passover. The early christians celebrated passover - not Easter. If you believe what is written in the bible as true fact, then we really have nothing to talk about. If you pay attention to what you are reading, you will see the similarites between all of the ancient festivals and rites and modern religious ones.

There are many, many pages of works on the internet - here are 3:
rcg.org/books/ttooe.html
goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/holidays2.htm
cbcg.org/should_christians_celebrate_easter.htm

We all have different belief systems and no one of them is right or wrong.

First off, I do not believe everything I read is true. I read many things offering many sides, many ideas. When these start to overlap and I see the same thing over and over, I form an opinion. I also form my opinion based on life experience and observation - which I have considerably more life experience than you do.

Yeah, but not all opinions are valid. Forgive me if I cannot accept your assertions on the fact that you have "more life experience". I've met many people with "more life experience" who have no clue about what they're talking about (not saying you don't though ).

You seem to be basing your belief off of the Venerable Bede's writings. He was a CHRISTIAN monk. So how unbiased do you think that is? The word pashca means and never changes - passover. The early christians celebrated passover - not Easter. If you believe what is written in the bible as true fact, then we really have nothing to talk about. If you pay attention to what you are reading, you will see the similarites between all of the ancient festivals and rites and modern religious ones.

I am not basing my belief (it's not my belief, lol) solely upon Bede. I am merely pointing out the obvious fact that the Hellenized Hebrew term Pascha - Passover is not used in Germanic languages like English. In Italic languages you have terms related to the Latin Pascalis - which surprise, is a loanword from Greek - used for "Easter".

And of course there are similarities, religions don't develop in a vacuum. I never denied that. I am simply saying that the idea Easter = pagan = not really Christian is a faulty idea, because people who speak Italic languages still use the word related to Passover. The whole idea that eggs and rabbits are somehow a part of Easter's religious significance is overlooking the fact that anywhere else in the world outside of the USA and Western Europe and countries with lots of population or influence from those countries don't have easter bunnies or egg dyeing. Those are folk traditions, not religious ones. Which is why you don't go to Easter service and hear the priest or reverend say "and yea, the Easter Bunny will save you from your sins and save your colored eggs from the fires of hell".

[onetruebeliever]

But you're missing the fact that the whole death and resurrection thing has as it's basis, the Babylonian version. Tummuz(?), the son of the goddess died and was resurrected. The whole thing is so eerily similar to the christian version of the Easter story. The other traditions - the fertility rites, eggs, the whole bit. And I'm sure that all of these ideas had their start with the earliest humans as a way to explain the world around them.

[norseman]

Actually, much of the early Christian writings come from Eadfrith, the Bishop of Lindisfarne rather than Bede [The Ecclesiastical History of the English Speaking People]. Now this is where it gets interesting in the light of the OP. Lindisfarne was founded by monks of the Gaelic Church, not the Roman Church. Wind back earlier to the "eradication" of the Druids in Anglesey by the Romans - many Druids escaped by sea and went to Ireland via the Isle of Man. These druids were subsumed by the Gaelic Church and introduced "paganish" rituals into the church - animism for example and Druid [pagan] festival days. After the Synod of Whitby, Roman Easter was established and the Gaelic church faded from view in England.

Just to end with a real twist, it emerged again in the 20th century. Both Gerald Gardner [founder of wicca] and Ross Nichol [founder of the largest group of British neo-Druids] were ordained priests of an obscure branch of the Gaelic church. What goes around etc

Originally Posted by onetruebeliever

But you're missing the fact that the whole death and resurrection thing has as it's basis, the Babylonian version. Tummuz(?), the son of the goddess died and was resurrected. The whole thing is so eerily similar to the christian version of the Easter story. The other traditions - the fertility rites, eggs, the whole bit. And I'm sure that all of these ideas had their start with the earliest humans as a way to explain the world around them.

But can you actually link Tammuz with the resurrection of Jesus? All of that hinges on the idea that the early Christians somehow adopted the mourning of Tammuz and changed it to Jesus.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that themes of resurrection did influence many Mediterranean customs (like the sleeping or death of Dionysos in Orphic mystery cults). But even then, it doesn't invalidate the idea that Easter or Paschal is a Christian holiday remarkably free from non-christian influences outside of folk traditions.

Originally Posted by norseman

Actually, much of the early Christian writings come from Eadfrith, the Bishop of Lindisfarne rather than Bede [The Ecclesiastical History of the English Speaking People]. Now this is where it gets interesting in the light of the OP. Lindisfarne was founded by monks of the Gaelic Church, not the Roman Church. Wind back earlier to the "eradication" of the Druids in Anglesey by the Romans - many Druids escaped by sea and went to Ireland via the Isle of Man. These druids were subsumed by the Gaelic Church and introduced "paganish" rituals into the church - animism for example and Druid [pagan] festival days. After the Synod of Whitby, Roman Easter was established and the Gaelic church faded from view in England.

Just to end with a real twist, it emerged again in the 20th century. Both Gerald Gardner [founder of wicca] and Ross Nichol [founder of the largest group of British neo-Druids] were ordained priests of an obscure branch of the Gaelic church. What goes around etc

What's the name of the Gaelic church?