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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Meditation

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Old 21-09-2018, 11:18 AM
Waverider Waverider is offline
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Enlightenment by miracle or by effort

Do you think enlightnment can be attained by working hard at it? The few enlightened people i’m aware of namely eckhart tolle, ramana maharshi, ramakrishna etc attained enlightenment by miracle. Eckhart for example didn’t do any spiritual work. He was deeply dipressed and one fine morning he had attained enlightenment. There could be others who attained by working on it but i am not aware of any as my knowledge is limited in this sphere.
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Old 21-09-2018, 11:39 AM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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I guess before cutting the tree we first need to sharpen the axe
Inner cleansing, detoxifying grossness through frequent contemplation
In reality, one step at a time
When space is created within, our core magnetised, the divine manifests automatically during prayerful meditation ����
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  #3  
Old 21-09-2018, 12:30 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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NIce post Unseeking Seeker, welcome to the forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waverider
Do you think enlightnment can be attained by working hard at it?
The few enlightened people i’m aware of namely eckhart tolle, ramana maharshi, ramakrishna etc attained enlightenment by miracle.
Eckhart for example didn’t do any spiritual work.
He was deeply depressed and one fine morning he had attained enlightenment.

There could be others who attained by working on it but i am not aware of any as my knowledge is limited in this sphere.
Well, my input to this, take it or leave it ...is they certainly did not just become enlightened.
They had prepared like we all have in our other lives.
Meaning, the soil was tilled and fertilized probably by sitting at the feet of Masters for multiple lives and sitting in deep meditation.
Nothing is what it appears to be.

There are so many books to read that are so informative. Ha, my latest is by Gary Renard again, his 4th...on this subject...:)...
"The Lifetimes Jesus and Buddha Knew Each Other".

(Gary is visited by 2 advanced souls...so all the info really comes from them.
Gary is also known well by ACIM, A Course In Miracle students.
It takes a minute to appreciate his sense of humor, btw.)

You mention 'working hard'...may I say...d-e-s-i-r-e for enlightenment,
a word I never use, myself,
and all that that means ...Knowledge extraordinaire, Divine love, Eternal bliss and so on....will come with steadfast desire.
You desire to eat; is it hard to eat? You desire your spouse, is it hard to love your spouse?
When you desire something ...it's not hard to pay attention to it.

For me, besides the prep from past lives, all that has come seems to have occurred
due to some sort of suffering that got me to the point of saying , "No More! I want this experience and not that experience...period."
Like a fat person when they say, "That is IT!" And they change the course of their whole life!

There is a tipping point and and all the tilling of the soil comes to fruition.
The seed is finally ready to be patted into that prepared soil, the sincere heart, that blooms into Bliss and Awareness.

That's my experience. Ramana, Nisargadatta and Tolle were primed, ripe and ready; already advanced souls, tho,
not conscious of that yet! Ha!
That playful veil was temporarily over their eyes.
Nothing happened suddenly as it appeared to be to our eyes.

My take.
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Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
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  #4  
Old 21-09-2018, 12:35 PM
Waverider Waverider is offline
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Thankyou very useful information. I want to believe that enlightenment can be achieved. I have the desire.
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  #5  
Old 21-09-2018, 08:33 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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As Miss H. says, what seems to be a spontaneous event may in fact be the outcome of much preparation in previous lives. We might expect that such a momentous event in the current lifetime was planned as part of the Soul's purpose for incarnating.

And for some people it may apparently be a spontaneous realisation out of nowhere, but for others it may come through long preparation culminating in a moment of realisation. For example, Adyashanti and Shinzen Young, who are regarded by many as enlightened.

We have to be aware that the term enlightenment is just a label for awakening to a greater reality. We cannot judge anyone else's state of consciousness, nor can we assume that all these "enlightened" people actually have the same level of realisation.

There is more to enlightenment than just the initial realisation. As Aurobindo says, the inner realisation is followed by the descent of the Divine into the lower vehicles (mental, emotional and physical). So Tolle sat on a park bench in London for two years consolidating his experience. Ramana Maharshi spent over 20 years in deep meditation before he began teaching.

It will not be Waverider who attains enlightenment. It will be the Consciousness currently expressing through Waverider which will one day know itself as Being and then use the lower vehicles to express that Being.

Peace.
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Old 21-09-2018, 11:56 PM
Rah nam Rah nam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waverider
Do you think enlightenment can be attained by working hard at it? The few enlightened people i’m aware of namely eckhart tolle, ramana maharshi, ramakrishna etc attained enlightenment by miracle. Eckhart for example didn’t do any spiritual work. He was deeply dipressed and one fine morning he had attained enlightenment. There could be others who attained by working on it but i am not aware of any as my knowledge is limited in this sphere.




Eckhart Tolle came from a state of enlightenment, all he had to do is, remember.
The other two I would not call enlightened.
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  #7  
Old 22-09-2018, 01:40 AM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rah nam
Eckhart Tolle came from a state of enlightenment, all he had to do is, remember.
The other two I would not call enlightened.

Your opinion on whether someone is enlightened is just that, an opinion. It is not a statement of fact, just your own personal belief. We are in no position to judge who is or is not enlightened.

And the term enlightenment has become a bit meaningless anyway - it is just another concept to let go of.

Peace.
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  #8  
Old 22-09-2018, 02:41 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Your opinion on whether someone is enlightened is just that, an opinion. It is not a statement of fact, just your own personal belief. We are in no position to judge who is or is not enlightened.

And the term enlightenment has become a bit meaningless anyway - it is just another concept to let go of.

Peace.

well technically speaking, if you are defining words for yourself then you can define the boxes they contain to hold anything you want. It is only when one is insisting that we all hold to the exactly same definition that you get into such troubles as you are describing...

but I agree it doesn't serve one well to define a box around something like 'enlightenment' as if one knew where one was going without actually going there. But that is the fundamental problem the ancestors found with deciding one knows, isn't it?
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  #9  
Old 22-09-2018, 06:05 AM
Gem Gem is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Your opinion on whether someone is enlightened is just that, an opinion. It is not a statement of fact, just your own personal belief. We are in no position to judge who is or is not enlightened.

And the term enlightenment has become a bit meaningless anyway - it is just another concept to let go of.

Peace.




I take Ramana and his lineage like Papaji and Nisargadatta as enlightened teachings, and Tolle as well, but I think Buddhist teachings explain the deeper aspects of 'right effort'.


Personally, I don't believe there is any preparation and enlightenment as self-realisation happens suddenly and unexpectedly as if by accident, without any cause at all.
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Radiate boundless love towards the entire world ~ Buddha
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Old 22-09-2018, 06:26 AM
Nature Grows Nature Grows is offline
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nvm sorted.....

Last edited by Nature Grows : 22-09-2018 at 11:20 AM.
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