IDENTIFYING 'MARKS' OF A SELF-REALIZED PERSON

[BigJohn]

What are some of the identifying marks of a self-realized person?

[Shivani Devi]

I don't know, but I just went on YouTube to renew my Gaia subscription and there was a recommendation for me, because the universe somehow knew that you were going to ask this question..I just finished looking at it no more than 15 minutes ago:

Sadhguru - How Do You Recognize an Enlightened Being?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQrhl7KJ0m4

Basically, he says that the mark of Enlightenment is that their life is uncomplicated.

....but what would I know?

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

What are some of the identifying marks of a self-realized person?

Talk the talk, Walk the walk, live by example ..


x daz x

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Sadhguru - How Do You Recognize an Enlightened Being?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQrhl7KJ0m4

Basically, he says that the mark of Enlightenment is that their life is uncomplicated.

Would you consider retaining some level of child-like innocence and wonderment, even for the simplest things, aspects of being uncomplicated?

[Altair]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

What are some of the identifying marks of a self-realized person?

First of all, we have to assume something like a ''self-realized person'' actually exists, which I find very doubtful. It's sort of the height of human hubris and self-centredness to think we are 'God'.

Entertaining the idea though, and going by the many spiritual traditions available, a ''self-realized person'' is usually said to...

1. Have infinite knowledge. < this could be easily tested with experiments and knowledge tests.
2. Have infinite love < this could be easily tested through their actions and speech. Speech can of course give false impressions so actions are a safer bet. If they are ''full of love'' they would be harmless, nonviolent to others.

Originally Posted by Altair

First of all, we have to assume something like a ''self-realized person'' actually exists, which I find very doubtful. It's sort of the height of human hubris and self-centredness to think we are 'God'.

Entertaining the idea though, and going by the many spiritual traditions available, a ''self-realized person'' is usually said to...

1. Have infinite knowledge. < this could be easily tested with experiments and knowledge tests.
2. Have infinite love < this could be easily tested through their actions and speech. Speech can of course give false impressions so actions are a safer bet. If they are ''full of love'' they would be harmless, nonviolent to others.

LOL! That's a massive straw man argument and obviously so. Either that or you are simply ignorant of the meaning of spiritual enlightenment.

https://www.consciouslifestylemag.co...nt-experience/

[Altair]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

LOL! That's a massive straw man argument and obviously so. Either that or you are simply ignorant of the meaning of spiritual enlightenment.

https://www.consciouslifestylemag.co...nt-experience/

Perhaps you are ignorant about it. The idea of ''self-realization'' comes from Indian religions, and it's about spiritual people who have reached the end destination, i.e. a human incarnation as well as full enlightenment. It is said that such persons have direct access to infinite love, infinite knowledge, and are in perpetual bliss and oneness. Upon death, they will not incarnate again and are without desires and attachments for an eternity. If they have infinite knowledge and love than we could definitely put that to the test.

In non-Indian religion and spirituality there is generally no reference to self-realization. In the modern context things have blurred a bit because of modern spiritual paths mixing different cultures, but the origins of self-realization beliefs seem to come from India.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Altair

Perhaps you are ignorant about it. The idea of ''self-realization'' comes from Indian religions, and it's about spiritual people who have reached the end destination, i.e. a human incarnation as well as full enlightenment. It is said that such persons have direct access to infinite love, infinite knowledge, and are in perpetual bliss and oneness. Upon death, they will not incarnate again and are without desires and attachments for an eternity. If they have infinite knowledge and love than we could definitely put that to the test.

In non-Indian religion and spirituality there is generally no reference to self-realization. In the modern context things have blurred a bit because of modern spiritual paths mixing different cultures, but the origins of self-realization beliefs seem to come from India.

It is impossible for any human being to have "infinite knowledge" in the sense of being able to tell what a stranger, half a world away, had for lunch two weeks ago last Friday, or the sequence of the first hundred numbers in a random number generator hidden from view in a Faraday cage in a researcher's basement across the country. Skeptics use "tests" like this to validate PSI abilities...if you get it right, you win a million dollars...if you do not, you are shamed and publicly ridiculed to the grave and the skeptic chalks up another digit on the "blackboard of woo" to reinforce and strengthen their own cognitive bias.

When we speak of knowledge (Jnana), we are talking about having an open and lateral mind which is receptive to every possibility, without criticism and without judgment. Those who do not understand this will call such people "gullible" and "naive" because all their own "protective walls" are up...raised really high due to the fear of appearing like an idiot in front of their peers and needing to remain in full control of what it t is they only think or believe they know about any given thing.

To be honest, real 'spiritual people' need to develop a hide of titanium REAL fast if they wish to survive in this world and pretty much need to forge their own path in life...dodging all of the peanuts thrown from the galleries of those who just watch, but are too pi$$-weak to get up on the stage themselves.

In regards to Self Realization, the New Age Movement has borrowed the whole concept...along with Chakras, Meditation, Tantra...almost everything from Hinduism anyway.

Religions have an alternative word for it... GRACE..which I prefer over Self-realization anyway for when one is filled with the Grace of God, God moves and works through them...ego vanishes because the mind has surrendered all notion of a petty, self-centered existence to a cause more noble, more sublime, more sacred than our primitive limbic survival system that most humans run on in this world and believe that is all there is TO life...eat, toil, screw, sleep....rinse & repeat in no particular order.

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Religions have an alternative word for it... GRACE..which I prefer over Self-realization anyway for when one is filled with the Grace of God, God moves and works through them...ego vanishes because the mind has surrendered all notion of a petty, self-centered existence to a cause more noble, more sublime, more sacred than our petty limbic survival system that most humans run on in this world and believe that is all there is TO life...eat, toil, screw, sleep..rinse & repeat in no particular order.

That is beautiful Shivani and you put it very succinctly.

It really annoys me when people miss that part.

I think spiritual types are doing themselves a huge disservice when denying the religious aspect of self-realisation and enlightenment. Divine Grace and surrender to a higher power are actually key here, rather than getting hung up about linguistic parables. Lately, I keep getting into mental tussles with people about how to define the Self or Oneness, yet they seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that the Union of Shiva and Shakti is behind all this and nothing else really matters.

As you know, I am a devotee of the Goddess and if people would just allow her Grace to descend upon them, all their fears, insecurities and doubts would vanish in an instant.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Skeptics use "tests" like this to validate PSI abilities...if you get it right, you win a million dollars...if you do not, you are shamed and publicly ridiculed to the grave and the skeptic chalks another digit up on the "blackboard of woo" to reinforce and strengthen their own cognitive bias.

I disagree. The experiments exist to test whether the claims are true or false. There is no sinister purpose behind it or any agenda to reinforce ''cognitive bias''. Some people make fantastical claims and I think humans, being knowledge seekers, have a right to know whether the claims are true or false. If people really can levitate or have infinite knowledge than what is there to lose to put it to the test??

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

When we speak of knowledge (Jnana), we are talking about having an open and lateral mind to every possibility, without criticism, without judgment. Those who do not understand will call such people "gullible" and "naive" because all their "protective walls" are up...raised really high, they are due to the rest of appearing like an idiot in front of their peers and needing to remain in full control of what it t is they only think or believe they know about any given thing. To be honest, real 'spiritual people' need to develop a hide of titanium REAL fast if they wish to survive in this world and pretty much need to forget their own path invoice...dodging all of the peanuts thrown from the galleries if those who just watch, but are too pi$$-weak to get a pin the stage themselves.

I'm not really following you here, Shivani.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

In regards to Self Realization, the New Age movement has borrowed the whole concept...along with Chakras, meditation, Tantra...almost everything from Hinduism anyway.

I agree. At the same time this offers Hindu universalists the means to fill up a religious niche that is available due to de-christianization in a number of countries.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Religions have an alternative word for it... GRACE..which I prefer over Self-realization anyway for when one is filled with the Grace of God, God moves and works through them...ego vanishes because the mind has surrendered all notion of a petty, self-centered existence to a cause more noble, more sublime, more sacred than our petty limbic survival system that most humans run on in this world and believe that is all there is TO life...eat, toil, screw, sleep..in no particular order.

I honestly don't see there's much lack of pettiness and self-centredness in religious people. I also don't see how most humans think there isn't more to life than ''this world'' and that only eating, sleeping, screwing, and toiling matter. Most people ARE religious. You are also presenting a false dichotomy here. People are first and foremost individuals.