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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Christianity

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  #221  
Old 30-06-2019, 07:35 AM
Aknaton Aknaton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceField
Your interpretation displays a deep lack of understanding of scripture and the gospel.

Jesus is God, a divine person of the triune God, and as such he has always existed, even before the Earth was created. Thus he was together with God the father before the world was.

God is outside of time and thus knows everything before it actually happens. Thus he knows people before they are even born.

Quite simple and basic if you know the Bible and interpret scripture within its own context. These verses have literally nothing to do with reincarnation.

'



' And now O Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had in your presence before the world was '


'' Before I formed you in the womb I knew[a] you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”


" Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
Tell me, if you have understanding.
Who determined its measurements—surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
On what were its bases sunk,
or who laid its cornerstone
when the morning stars sang together
and all the heavenly beings shouted for joy? "
[/quote]

Indeed, let us think of God like this; take the Sun for example.

The Sun is God.
The Light of the Sun is Christ.
The Heat and Vibration of the Sun is the Spirit.

Never were they separated from from each other...

Or let's think of it as God being Undifferentiated and Divine Love in relation to an individual:

1. Love exists but Is only known by the Individual, and so the Individual relates to Love from an objective point of view, knowing that he/she is loved but cannot relate to this Love and interacts with this Love by what I would call a checklist. This we see in the Old Testament, and so we read that they referred to Him objectively. They called Him God Almighty, Lord, and other impersonal names.
2. Love is then experienced by the Individual and this experience becomes personal, in that he/she relates to an objective existence of Love in a non-objective & personal manner. They called Him Father, Beloved, my Love, basically intimate names. This is the Son aspect.
3. This same Love is transmitted in as much as individual A has received, to individual B who still has an objective relationship with Love. This is the Spirit aspect.
*If you look closely at ImthatIm's posts about God being Love, Love manifested and flowing, you will see this same view more detail.
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  #222  
Old 01-07-2019, 01:42 AM
VinceField VinceField is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123




Yes your interpretation displays a deep lack of understanding of scripture and the gospel.
The verses refer to the pre-existence of the soul which DM mentioned Jesus must have also believed this as does DM.

No, what I said is perfectly in line with scripture. Those verses are not about a human soul. They are about Jesus Christ, who is God. Very different. If you don't believe Christ is God then you don't believe scripture, and if that is the case, it makes no sense to be making an argument from scripture if you don't trust its validity.
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  #223  
Old 01-07-2019, 01:48 AM
VinceField VinceField is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aknaton

Indeed, let us think of God like this; take the Sun for example.

The Sun is God.
The Light of the Sun is Christ.
The Heat and Vibration of the Sun is the Spirit.

Never were they separated from from each other...

Or let's think of it as God being Undifferentiated and Divine Love in relation to an individual:

1. Love exists but Is only known by the Individual, and so the Individual relates to Love from an objective point of view, knowing that he/she is loved but cannot relate to this Love and interacts with this Love by what I would call a checklist. This we see in the Old Testament, and so we read that they referred to Him objectively. They called Him God Almighty, Lord, and other impersonal names.
2. Love is then experienced by the Individual and this experience becomes personal, in that he/she relates to an objective existence of Love in a non-objective & personal manner. They called Him Father, Beloved, my Love, basically intimate names. This is the Son aspect.
3. This same Love is transmitted in as much as individual A has received, to individual B who still has an objective relationship with Love. This is the Spirit aspect.
*If you look closely at ImthatIm's posts about God being Love, Love manifested and flowing, you will see this same view more detail.

It's interesting to contemplate the triune nature of God but I don't believe we can truly understand it. But there is much about God and his creation that we can understand and reincarnation is simply not a part of it according to His word. I'm sure you agree if you're a Christian or if you've read the Bible.
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  #224  
Old 03-07-2019, 11:58 AM
davidmartin davidmartin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceField
No, what I said is perfectly in line with scripture. Those verses are not about a human soul. They are about Jesus Christ, who is God. Very different. If you don't believe Christ is God then you don't believe scripture, and if that is the case, it makes no sense to be making an argument from scripture if you don't trust its validity.

I agree with Vince here. The new testament clearly doesn't support re-incarnation. There may be allusions and references that can be interpreted that way if you like, but that is about it
If you think Jesus did believe in it, then it just means that this aspect of his teaching never made it into scripture, and this is a personal belief. i think it is ok to have personal beliefs.
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  #225  
Old 03-07-2019, 12:13 PM
SlayerOfLight SlayerOfLight is offline
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Originally Posted by davidmartin
I agree with Vince here. The new testament clearly doesn't support re-incarnation. There may be allusions and references that can be interpreted that way if you like, but that is about it
If you think Jesus did believe in it, then it just means that this aspect of his teaching never made it into scripture, and this is a personal belief. i think it is ok to have personal beliefs.

Or it was removed from scripture, which would hardly surprise me. Unfortunately we'll never know the original uncorrupted teachings of that wretched horror novel because it has been passed over and rewritten so many times throughout the centuries.
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  #226  
Old 03-07-2019, 05:11 PM
VinceField VinceField is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight
Or it was removed from scripture, which would hardly surprise me. Unfortunately we'll never know the original uncorrupted teachings of that wretched horror novel because it has been passed over and rewritten so many times throughout the centuries.

None of what you said is supported by facts or evidence. There are thousands upon thousands of ancient manuscripts dating back within decades of the original writings that prove that the Bible we have today is accurate to the original word. Please educate yourself, don't spread lies.
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  #227  
Old 03-07-2019, 06:31 PM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight
Or it was removed from scripture, which would hardly surprise me. Unfortunately we'll never know the original uncorrupted teachings of that wretched horror novel because it has been passed over and rewritten so many times throughout the centuries.



Of course it was removed otherwise.....

“If anyone asserts the fabulous preexistence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema. (The Anathemas against Origen), attached to the decrees of the Fifth Ecumenical Council, A.D. 545, in Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, 2d ser., 14: 318).” would not have been necessary.


Pope Vigilius was actually arrested for his belief in Reincarnation so we can assume that many others did believe including Canonised Saints.
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  #228  
Old 03-07-2019, 09:13 PM
SlayerOfLight SlayerOfLight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceField
None of what you said is supported by facts or evidence. There are thousands upon thousands of ancient manuscripts dating back within decades of the original writings that prove that the Bible we have today is accurate to the original word. Please educate yourself, don't spread lies.

Many of those manuscripts differ from each other. Take the dead sea scrolls for example, they are generally rejected by most Christians because it doesn't support everything their own religion taught them. And I find it hard to believe that there was once an original piece of text literally written by some wizard in the sky. Speaking of evidence, there is no evidence for that neither.
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  #229  
Old 04-07-2019, 06:56 PM
davidmartin davidmartin is offline
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slayer/sky are very one sided and dogmatic in their approach. i'm finding it hard to tell them apart from any other dogmatic person.
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  #230  
Old 04-07-2019, 07:11 PM
SlayerOfLight SlayerOfLight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmartin
slayer/sky are very one sided and dogmatic in their approach. i'm finding it hard to tell them apart from any other dogmatic person.

lol, as if fundamentalists aren't.
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