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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Death & The Afterlife

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  #1  
Old 13-12-2015, 06:06 AM
Rfrost Rfrost is offline
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Lightbulb Death isn't always about death of the body

It has been forever since I have been on, yet for the past few months I have constantly been getting a pull to come back. I am following my intuition to come back to this lovely community, with that said, I wanted to bring up something.

Death can always represent a few different things besides death of the physical body. This can also represent the end of a chapter in your life, rebirth, renewal, completing a life purpose, or end of an aspect, relationship, something in your waking life. As I have learned and grown, I have discovered that through the plethora of death dreams, visions, and meditations have very little to do with the death of a physical body. At least 90-95%+ of my dreams, visions, and meditations have been about the end of a life chapter. I used to be so terrified that so many people that I loved and cared about would suddenly die. However, I have learned through time, patience, guidance, and meditation, that is means something so much more. I have also learned that when/if the physical body dies, that does not mean I can't connect with the soul of the person who passed.

I would love to hear any other thoughts, feelings, experiences that you might have to offer.
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  #2  
Old 13-12-2015, 06:11 PM
Emmalevine Emmalevine is offline
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We're dying to each moment. Life itself is about letting go. While letting go of the physical body is the ultimate surrender, we're called to let go of all we identify with at every step of our lives. We lose everything and yet we gain everything by the same token. That is the paradox. Through loss, we come to realise we are all we ever needed.
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  #3  
Old 13-12-2015, 09:06 PM
SemperVI SemperVI is offline
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Great post Rfrost! Interestingly, last night I was compelled to write this with the impression I would be responding to a posting on this site. Coincidence? Perhaps.... In any case - the following is an excerpt of what I wrote.

For myself, "Rebirth" is my epiphany of my worldly experience. While my faith in the universe, the creator, divine source aka God is that of a christian heretic (one who is at odds with mainstream Christianity). I do believe the true message of Jesus is to learn who you are, where you came from and escape the body to return to your true and natural genesis.

Didymos Judas Thomas directly recorded Jesus in Logion 3 when He said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

The depth of this early proto-gnostic teaching is manifest and covertly personified by the poet Theodotus. "Fate is real, but after it the astrologists are no longer right. But it is not only the washing that is liberating, but the knowledge of who we were, and what we have become, where we were or where we were placed, whither we hasten, from what we are redeemed, what birth is and what rebirth."
  • Who were you? Divine being
  • What have you become? Mud, imprisoned in a body, trapped in materiality
  • Where were You? Heaven, with the divine father, with God, one with the universe
  • Where have you been placed? Into the earth, into the world, into materiality
  • Wither We Hasten: Where are you going in such a hurry? Back to heaven, the divine/living father, to God, return to singularity with the universe
  • What are you redeemed from? You are redeemed from being embodied, released from the material world
  • What is birth? Damnation, death... When you are born your spark is entrapped in your body.
  • What is rebirth: Death, learning your true self, learning the true self won't die at all.

Within the duality of my physical body and conscious mind, understanding this faith is simple a matter of recognizing that sprite is alive and well, and continues to manifest despite the obstacles of secular obfuscation placed before it. If the meaning and message of Jesus is settled business (Nicene doctrine) -- this implies we are dealing with a closed book from the summer of 325 instead of the immediate reality we are all faced with. It is in this context I have learned this message is about my own personal encounter and transformation that brings about understanding and eternal change for the conscious and eternal mind. The universal truth "Seek and you will find" really works. If you have that purity of motivation, hunger for the truth and keep going in the face of doubt and despite the many obstacles placed before you. You will find what it is you are seeking because you will be guided even if you do not recognize it.

-- Peace
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Old 13-12-2015, 10:14 PM
wolfgaze wolfgaze is offline
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Thanks for sharing RFrost...

This is one of my favorite quotes on the subject matter:

"Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to die before you die - and find that there is no death" ~ Eckhart Tolle
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  #5  
Old 13-12-2015, 10:31 PM
metal68 metal68 is offline
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Im still finding it all hard to believe. I think the materialist conditioning of past years has done a good job. I mean, how can you exist when there is no longer a body??!! It seems impossible that a disembodied mind can still function?!!
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  #6  
Old 13-12-2015, 10:51 PM
wolfgaze wolfgaze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metal68
Im still finding it all hard to believe. I think the materialist conditioning of past years has done a good job. I mean, how can you exist when there is no longer a body??!! It seems impossible that a disembodied mind can still function?!!

Hahah I hear ya... Try starting from the opposite end of things ... How could biological cells/matter be responsible for creating consciousness (self-awareness) when analysis of those individual parts (components) does not demonstrate that they exhibit the same qualities as the whole package... In other words we can't prove nor do we claim that neurons in the brain (and elsewhere) possess the quality of consciousness or self-awareness, yet the materialist perspective says that some combination or configuration of these unconscious biological parts/components is supposed to be responsible for creating the phenomenon of consciousness (self-awareness)? They (materialists/reductionists) can't explain it any better than someone can explain how consciousness exists independent of the physical body. So you may find yourself in somewhat of a neutral place or middleground regarding this debate. That's where I think certain unexplainable, transcendental (seemingly supernatural) experiences come into the picture and when sufficiently contemplated I feel they will push one's awareness beyond the belief/perception that the physical body is responsible for creating consciousness or your existence.
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  #7  
Old 13-12-2015, 11:00 PM
metal68 metal68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze
Hahah I hear ya... Try starting from the opposite end of the spectrum... How could biological cells/matter be responsible for creating consciousness (self-awareness) when analysis of those individual parts (components) does not demonstrate that they exhibit the same qualities as the whole package... In other words we can't prove nor do we claim that neurons in the brain possess consciousness or self-awareness, yet the materialist perspective says that some combination or configuration of these unconscious parts/components is supposed to be responsible for creating the phenomenon of consciousness (self-awareness)? They (materialists or reductionists) can't explain it any better than someone can explain how consciousness exists independent of the physical body.



I knew youd swoop in to offer hope, I totally get you WG but I also think of all the billions who have already gone and yet none have returned to offer real concrete evidence. Surely there should be something more tangible?
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  #8  
Old 13-12-2015, 11:53 PM
wolfgaze wolfgaze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metal68
I knew youd swoop in to offer hope, I totally get you WG but I also think of all the billions who have already gone and yet none have returned to offer real concrete evidence. Surely there should be something more tangible?

Hey friend...



What in your mind do you feel would meet your standard of proof or criteria for establishing this assertion?

Other questions I would offer are valuable to extensively ponder and ruminate on would be the mind-numbing question of why does anything that you observe with your physical senses exist at all? Where did it come from and where does it go when it ceases to be present/detectable to your physical senses? To my knowledge no scientists have devised a way to violate the Law of Conversation of Energy. If we perceive that a form of energy exists within living things/beings - where does it go when the physical form perishes? It can't cease to exist and deteriorate into nothingness - can it? While we may not have any concrete answers to these questions - I think you can sensibly arrive at the awareness/perception that everything you observe in this physical Universe must have come from somewhere - it must have originated from some source or let's say unfolded from some higher level of reality (existence) that is not detectable from the vantage point of our physical senses. If something exists, can we say that there must be some purpose for its existence? It didn't come from nothing, for no reason/purpose, and then turn back into nothing - right? I think when you marvel at the profoundness of these implications it is not so unbelievable or unfathomable to consider that these physical forms you observe with your physical senses were not the starting point of your existence (as you know it) nor will theese physical forms be the ending point of that exists...

Back to your original question - perhaps the energy that you know as the consciousness (or soul/spirit) of those living 'beings' that have physically perished is currently existing in a form that makes it extremely difficult to appear or make its presence known to those who are still experiencing this state of physical embodiment... To take it a step further - perhaps there is a higher purpose being served by your very experience within this physical dimension and that more tangible proof/evidence that you wish for would somehow hinder or interfere with that plan. If we had access to all of the answers from this position or vantage point - that might defeat the very purpose of why our reality is structured/arranged/organized the way it is.
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  #9  
Old 13-12-2015, 11:10 PM
SemperVI SemperVI is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metal68
Im still finding it all hard to believe. I think the materialist conditioning of past years has done a good job. I mean, how can you exist when there is no longer a body??!! It seems impossible that a disembodied mind can still function?!!

I see the brain as nothing more than an organic antenna. Humbly I submit to you how does a TV signal exist with out the TV?
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A man who has not passed through the inferno of his passions has not overcome them.

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  #10  
Old 13-12-2015, 11:20 PM
metal68 metal68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SemperVI
I see the brain as nothing more than an organic antenna. Humbly I submit to you how does a TV signal exist with out the TV?


In that instance the signal is said to still be in transmission; the signal still exists without the tv but the tv gives it the opportunity to manifest itself.

The brain maybe gives the same opportunity; without it we only exist as random data streams with no individualisations ie dead for all purposes.

Do we regain subjectivity at some future point? maybe but not with any trace of ourselves left
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