Narcissists and Aging

[Izz]

Hello

For those who have experienced dealing with narcissists - do you find that the older narcissists get, the more those abusive and toxic traits get exacerbated?

Why is that - it appears as if those traits were lesser toned (but still apparent) during younger - but the more they age, the more it is as if they can't be bothered hiding it anymore?

With a toxic and abusive family member, I find myself increasingly hiding away certain professional and personal goals from her. I had to actually guard myself from slipping any more even just casual, positive comments about work or anyone I work with - lest she would pick a non-existent fault or insist on some fault that is non-existent until I got either confused or demoralized

Thus I kept certain things to myself, esp away from the prying ears of narcissist. Lest she would try to elaborate some isolation or sabotage tactic (typically what narcs do)

Yes I read that somewhere it is common. Could be a various of things, they are loosing the old power they had of the younger generation? They are getting older and if they are fixated with looks and position at work (maybe retired) they can get sort of lost in their identity? Plus the older anyone gets I believe you speak more freely, are less afraid in a way, have found yourself. Only with a narc - to speak freely...not so good at times.

as you see it with clarity now i think you will find ways to distance yourself, now you are in the middle of all this but your situation won't always be like this, I think.

[Izz]

Originally Posted by asearcher

Plus the older anyone gets I believe you speak more freely, are less afraid in a way, have found yourself. Only with a narc - to speak freely...not so good at times

Btw Asearcher, this reminds me of that abusive friend the one I talked about in the other thread who also shot me weird accusations. She is in fact several years older than me

I uncovered in archives something she had said to me, being patronizing while EXPECTING me to drop something to HELP HER - she actually said "know I can make others feel Im insensitive as life forced me to deal with real life and death matters, while their stuff is not as serious as mine. And real adult life responsibilities and things, sometimes I make people in my life WHO DONT HAVE TO DEAL WITH THOSE (her assumptions) feel like I dont even care, And Im also sorry" ALL THE WHILE THIS WAS DONE WHILE BERATING ME BECAUSE SHE DEMANDED THAT I HELP HER WITH HER ISSUES

She shot those insults because I needed to be away from her for a while to sort out important things in my life - and she had the cheek to tell me I didn't deal with real life stuff - because she was throwing a tantrum that I didn't immediately drop everything to help her with her important life issues (according to her standards)

This is what abusive energy leeches do - they demand you see them as "more profound" and "more serious" all the while demanding that you help them. Because goodness forbid I didn't act like the lowly peasant catering to her demands immediately and thus I should've been chided because ONLY SHE knew about real life matters, but not me

One wonders why if she thought that lowly of me and my level of maturity in life, why then did she have to CONSTANTLY ask for my help? "izz you're not as serious as me but please, please help me" was her whole vibe and honestly I kicked myself for not ending the friendship soon enough

Thank God that this year i was given the spiritual awakening and protection to cut her off, and to see people like her for who they truly are. Never again

[Miss Hepburn]

Hi Izz, I have not, they stay the same, no change.

But it is so good now Izz that you see this now. When I was learning about narcs and their children one trait a child can have is that it lets other people treat you a like a dormat.

I know myself when I am going through something and my friends too when they have, are that one is kinda in a bubble of one's own, but it don't mean we think our problems are more urgent, important than anyone else. There is a line there. I think also the human brain is orchestrated that if we face a problem we stress up and try to solve it and see only that. But to go from that to not have any kind of understanding or respect about other people's lives and issues - then there is something wrong.

sound to me like you're angry. When I was subjected to such things I was first of all hurt and confused and would blame myself. Then - then I got angry. The angry made me say enough is enough. Never again. Just like you wrote "Never again".

I have such healthy distance right now in my life from the narc that I feel as if I have left it behind me. I am not worked up about it anymore. I am not triggered easily anymore. I feel protected and more strong now. I feel understood. I am in no way ever going to allow myself to be pursued to ever be in a vulnerable position again with that narc.

I hope and think you too will be where I am today and then you can take the wisdom and the strength from it and use for good in your life.

[Izz]

Originally Posted by asearcher

I know myself when I am going through something and my friends too when they have, are that one is kinda in a bubble of one's own, but it don't mean we think our problems are more urgent, important than anyone else. There is a line there.

Yes, that whole time that so-called "friend" I walked away from was like "Izz, you don't know real life stuff like me and you don't have real experiences like me, but absolutely please help me with my issues as I demand you to"

Not only that, she went as far as to say "izz you always have something intense and serious with you, that's just how you deal with stuff" meanwhile in that same context she STILL expected me to help her

I later called her out on that behavior and yet after giving chances she still exhibited the same attitude

What kind of entitlement is this, to insult someone and their identity like that and then expect them to help you and understand you unconditionally? I have definitely woken up to what I was forced to put up with

I owned up to my mistakes of being repetitive about certain things talking to her but she had never truly owned up to her faults and her demands of expecting my help; while I was somehow obliged to take in her insults and belittlement

If I am as "unhinged" as she really makes it appear as if I am, then she must be worse because why is she seeking help (not ONLY seeking but DEMAND) from someone she deem inferior, below her and could not possibly know "real experiences" as her?

See, this is the thing with energy leeches. They like to put themselves as if they are more profound and more serious to the point of putting you down, attempt to make you question your sense of reality but then expect you to be grateful and run to their rescue

Good riddance to a toxic friend who has never not once taken accountability for what she has done. In fact when she once apologized she deemed it as "sorry I was not being sensitive enough." It was just about me being "sensitive" and not at all about her being entitled demanding help from friends while insulting and laughing at them in the same breath. Good luck to her and I hope she finds someone willing to put up helping her with her issues while enduring her never ending insults

I'm glad for how strong you are, Asearcher and thank you once again for listening and being the voice of reason

Hi Izz, no trouble, just happy I can be some sort of support I guess after what I myself have been through.

It is interesting, I have to say, in what context your ex-friend used the word "sensitive". The same goes for the narc. I never knew til I became part of that family that the word sensitive could mean something bad, something weak, a word you could use for manipulation. The way it is twisted around, just as a so called apology is twisted around, just to project the blame right back at you, when they are the one who are suppose to say they're sorry or that they themselves are insensitive. I totally get you. I've seen, heard this again and again.

I have noticed that nobody in the narc's family ever dares to show true emotion and say something true around the narc because if, and when they do the narc becomes a bully and point them out as being too sensitive, too emotional that is equal in the narc's strong opinion of being weak, inferior. If nobody else has been in the presence of a narc and knows what this is like they might just read the words the narc is saying and think oh well that ain't so bad. One has to be there to know the difference.

Then again the narc I know can be full of emotions, be a "hero" (not in my book) one minute, try to force that image on everyone else, and a victim like no other the next (then the emotional part, can even fake crying).

If, when someone else gets emotional they all leave one way or another.

One time my luv got emotional protecting someone else, in despair, wanting the narc to stop and to apologize (to someone else) and even years after the narc would bring this up and say that my luv was weak for having done that. I would say no. I would say he was the only man in the room. But nobody was used to anyone else in the family standing up and defending someone else in the family, they were all too ruled by the narc, that was one of the narc rules - that nobody was allowed to do that. My luv grew up with the narc's partner who - and this I have seen - gets up and leave as this partner gets emotional (sin to be emotional, to get a tear in your eye?). One time I asked my luv "Please tell me. Please tell me your parent did not get up and leave the room and leave you or your sibling/s alone with the narc? Please, tell me this.". But he said he couldn't remember. The other partner leaves when it gets emotional and leave behind a child or children, even if they are grown ups. I refused to leave. I stayed. I would try to show my silent support and support by my words and the way I would physically be close to the victim, as anyone becomes a victim once the narc has decided to be a bully and focus on one - always focusing on one, one at a time. It can't take a group. So I told them why don't you just join forces then? Why are the rest of you silent? Why are you allowing this bully pick one at a time and then go from that one to the next and everyone else is silent? Where did you learn this? Who taught you this? The other parent? The parent that leaves? As a mother watching this I can tell there was this cold shift inside of me. I felt like running after that parent and grab it by its arm and say YOU get back in there !!! You don't ever leave your child behind in trouble !!! This is NOW !!! This is NOW your child needs you the most !! And NOW is your time to leave???!!! Did you do this to them when they were just children ?? DID YOU??!!!!

...But I didn't. I just made sure I stayed, for what ever it was worth (maybe nothing). I have wanted to ask the other parent Did you think you made a man out of your boy doing this? Allowing a bully for a parent to do this to it's own child - and you leaving??!

But this is what my luv was taught. To be "man enough". And the other parent - who left - thinking of itself to be too weak, too sensitive to handle it, more so than it's own child - and then leaves.

As you can tell I have a big problem with the leaving part. I understand that the other parent has it's own history and it's own reason but that was just one of those times when I got angry and shocked to tell the truth and kept it to myself back then.

Behind his back too the narc would tell this story. Anyone with a sane mind and a heart would understand what my luv did and said was right, and not a sign of weakness but a sign of the opposite. What the narc did to get such a reaction - that was what was weak. The narc is weak. But it tries so hard to fool everyone it is the opposite.

You know what ever these people (these narcs and similar) think they have that is of value - they don't have that value, not real value. They don't dare to be real. They don't dare to have anyone as their equal - because there is something wrong with them, that's why they always want to be superior. they are too damaged and it is for life - so if they feel small they will try to appear as if they are big, something wrong with the line. best to just learn what these tactics are, how to deal with them and take further steps on how to not allow them to poison your life or your own well being.

[Izz]

Hello asearcher

Yes, she has never taken real responsibility although I still made the mistake of giving her chances in the past. Her apology was more so "sorry I was not sensitive enough" rather than acknowledging she was actually selfish, cruel and also hypocritical. Since it was a tantrum because she accused me of abandoning her for a few days when I needed to sort something out that was important (to do with certain goals and now that I think about it in hindsight she did not take those goals seriously. Because between me and her, to her she knew "more real life experiences" but somehow twistedly she still demanded my help)

When I defended myself from her accusations that I had the important things to sort out, she then said "izz you always have something intense and serious with you, that's just how you deal with stuff." Hypocrisy because I don't remember saying that to her whenever she came to me about her serious problems. Keep in mind, this was said in the same breath of her expecting my help and berating me for not being there to help her apparently

What kind of individual insults someone and the person's identity and dismiss the person as not being experienced BUT demand the person's help, labor and attention? If I was seriously that lowly to her and not as experienced, profound as her and immature in all manner (according to her) - WHY then seek my help? As if im some slave?

As far as I'm concerned, I don't owe her anything. Yes I had sought her help in the past but she has done the same - albeit perhaps I could be repetitive in things I shared, only it never crossed my mind to mock her back then during her despair nor have I ever said "you're always so intense and serious" in an insulting way

I also recall her and that other male karmic friend I also walked away from shaming me for "not being grateful" enough and apparently to them this was a sign of spiritual weakness

Funnily enough I do not recall shaming her for not being grateful enough when she said "you have other priorities now but my issues demand URGENCY NOW." I do not recall shaming him - this male karmic ex friend - for not being grateful enough when he basically interrupted my preparation for a conference to moan about his professional troubles. I would not have talked about these in this tone if they had not pushed me

Energy leeches are like that - zero self reflection, zero accountability, feels entitled to insult people in the most cruel and demeaning ways while demanding unconditional help and understanding. All the while acting like they are spiritually superior, the most profound person and that everyone else in the room even the ones who helped them the most are beneath them. And then they wonder why they suddenly get cut off

It's not spiritual weakness to call out on your loopholes and abuse that you likely perpetuate towards others too, energy leeches

Asearcher, im sorry again to hear about the narc you have been dealing with - from what I gathered based on what you shared, this narc must have been the expert on Triangulation. Triangulation is the key word here

Although this does not excuse the other parent for walking away and being spineless with the children, thus enabling the narcissist. And you are so right, narcs are damaged for life - what a pity

[RedEmbers]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Hi Izz, I have not, they stay the same, no change.

That's a hard lesson to learn.

[Izz]

Asearcher regarding that public debacle I mentioned (can't name names esp big figures), some stuff worth mentioning about Narc energy leeches tactics (this also falls under psychopath tactics)

The energy leech would
Paint themselves as more serious
More evolved, more all-knowing
More rational, more profound
More authentic
Belittling to the extent that - the victim would question their own sense of reality
This belittlement was done repeatedly. Repetitively, repetitively

The victim would potentially then (as a result)
Internalize the contradicting beliefs
Feel confusion
Look up to the perpetrator for guidance
Feel more confusion
As a result - act or lash out in ways that could be considered "not grounded" to the untrained eye

Upon the victim lashing out -
The perpetrator uses this as an opportunity to use those moments as a way to paint themselves as the "rational, logical one", that their victim was "unhinged" out of nowhere

Because the perpetrator exploited subtly the victim's defense mechanism. With gaslighting

In all honesty I should write a book or an article on this someday