The elephant in the room.

[Baile]

In anticipation of possible replies to my last comment... No, glorifying hunting and killing (Deer Season!!!!) is not spiritual. An appropriate place to start a topic like that is on the Guns And Crossbows website. And yes, there is difference between authentic meaningful dialogue, versus posting shock-topic stories and thread topics for the sole purpose of eliciting responses from people.

[Lucky 1]

Originally Posted by Baile

Well I appreciate that, thank you. That's almost a spiritual story and epiphany. Obviously it's mostly about hunting, killing and eating animals, and belongs on the Canadian Hunting And Ice Fishing forum and not here. But there's a real human element in there, and that's a happy sign.

Baile....I follow the "spiritual path of the hunter"......and I thoroughly understand that you don't understand that....perhaps are not even emotionally equipt to understand it.......and by the way.....you do not find me on here bashing anyone else's spiritual beliefs or the path they choose to follow.....vegan or otherwise.

i'll post something here from some time back that I wrote about why many humans still hunt in another thread to perhaps shed some light on it ...I don't know that it will make any difference to a vegan crowd though and frankly don't care if it does one way or another..... but here goes.


Why we still hunt
Because it puts you in touch with nature and connects you to the land.......when you eat what you grow and kill yourself...you truly know and appreciate what you have to eat in a deeply profound and spiritual way....

We eat the deer and animals......when we die our bodies decay and fertilize the soil...that grows the grass... that the deer and animals eat....to grow your food and to hunt and feed your family like that is truly the natural and spiritual way...it is the circle of life and human beings are a part of that circle of life.

Frankly....the path of the hunter is a spiritual path and a connection to nature that a non-hunter can never know.....as far as I'm concerned vegans are just pretenders in this regard when it comes to spirituality.

Only the hunter who has walked the woods.....and heard the howl of the wolf across the mountains...and felt the drive and passion of the hunt....and the hunt is literally the circle of life!!!....can love the deer and animals and nature in the most profound and spiritual way and why today's sportsman are the biggest and most vocal proponents of saving the environment and the wild places from human encroachment and are also the ones putting there money where there mouth is by funding government programs that save these animals and wild places for future generations...

The hunt is the circle of life......it is the mystical flight of the sacred arrow!!!!


End of quote.

And BTW....I gave up hunting with a rifle many years ago....and only hunt with a bow....trust me...the animals have more than a fair chance to get away....
Also I am not a trophy hunter.....myself and the crowd I run with are subsistence hunters....and we hunt to fill our freezers for a number of families and also donate a lot of game to homeless shelters

So Baile....So you say that "deer season" is not spiritual??? All I can say is don't ridicule what you clearly don't understand.

[Rah nam]

Originally Posted by Lucky 1

I follow the "spiritual path of the hunter"......and I thoroughly understand that you don't understand that....perhaps are not even emotionally equipt to understand it.......and by the way.....you do not find me on here bashing anyone else's spiritual beliefs or the path they choose to follow.....vegan or otherwise.

This was actually directed at Baile, but for some reason I started looking into it and asking my brethren to give me an understanding of hunting as a spiritual path.

We need to understand, on this planet there are 5 definite path, teachings, and every teaching can bring you to the next level of existence.
There are the Abrahamic religions, the original Indian teachings, Buddhism, Taoism, and all the native tribes around the world, (Australia, the Americas, Central Asia, an in the earlier times perhaps Europe and Britain)
In the last 100 years a crossing over between those spiritual path occurred, and not always to the benefit of the those who mix the practices. Very noticeably by those who flogged to India to soak up washed down teachings which where heavily infiltrated by the dark.
Instead of worshipping their own God they started worshipping some dubious Yogis and various teachers who lapped up their attention.
(Worshipping anyone or anything is dubious at any time)
The spiritual path of the hunter is not very different, someone picked an aspect of a spiritual path and turned it into a quasi religion, without embracing and and practising the totality of the spiritual path. And with that ending up somewhat in limbo. Meaning they are not following the path of the light nor of the dark.

Never mind, time is not of the essence.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Rah nam

This was actually directed at Baile, but for some reason I started looking into it and asking my brethren to give me an understanding of hunting as a spiritual path.

We need to understand, on this planet there are 5 definite path, teachings, and every teaching can bring you to the next level of existence.
There are the Abrahamic religions, the original Indian teachings, Buddhism, Taoism, and all the native tribes around the world, (Australia, the Americas, Central Asia, an in the earlier times perhaps Europe and Britain)
In the last 100 years a crossing over between those spiritual path occurred, and not always to the benefit of the those who mix the practices. Very noticeably by those who flogged to India to soak up washed down teachings which where heavily infiltrated by the dark.
Instead of worshipping their own God they started worshipping some dubious Yogis and various teachers who lapped up their attention.
(Worshipping anyone or anything is dubious at any time)
The spiritual path of the hunter is not very different, someone picked an aspect of a spiritual path and turned it into a quasi religion, without embracing and and practising the totality of the spiritual path. And with that ending up somewhat in limbo. Meaning they are not following the path of the light nor of the dark.

Never mind, time is not of the essence.

This is probably better as a topic on its own, Rah Nam..
I think you're arguing for 'true' authentic paths yet paths have always been subject to change. The so called teachings that ''bring you to the next level'' (??) have never been fixed either. I'm not sure I understand what your point is..

[Pagandell]

Originally Posted by Debrah

You're right, the predators do eat other animals. The cats in particular, are obligate carnivores which means their physiology requires meat and generally speaking, they respond to their food needs as a matter of instinct and availability. That's why they aren't 'evil'. Carnivore's bodies are designed to eat meat and their function is purely to control herbivore numbers.

Our physiology on the other hand, is actually more like that of herbivores. From the design of our teeth and entire digestive system to the kinds of digestive acids that our bodies produce, we are clearly more like plant eaters.

And here's something to further encourage acceptance of that statement. People who are suffering from heart disease, diabetes, MS, arthritis, some cancers, etc., will usually see a reversal of the disease when they drop the meat and dairy from their diet. But if you drop veggies from your diet, you're health will decline and eventually you'll die. Early explorers discovered that and made sure to bring some kind of veggies along with the salt pork or whatever they carried. So dropping meat and the subsequent return to health indicates that meat is not an appropriate food for us.

Also, while your puppy can chow down on the contents of the cat's litter box with relative impunity, you and I don't have digestive enzymes that are strong enough for us to survive that. They can eat animals that have been dead for a while, but the bacteria would take us out. Hence, they are designed to eat meat and we aren't.

I guess as far as your 'purity' suggestion, wouldn't that point more to their responding only to instinct and immediate need? Whereas we humans have a tendency to make plans that easily ignore not only our own need (peace in the present?) for the sake of a greater gain that may hurt vast numbers of other people, animals or the environment. Now that is evil in my opinion.

Thanks for the info Debrah

[Pagandell]

Originally Posted by Baile

He is correct. I have a hard time staying silent when I'm correct... meaning I have a hard time staying silent.

And just do the same: sign up to the Fish And Game forum, and start threads on topics like "Seal Protection Season!!!!"

Sorry I did not make my self clear, I was talking about his obsession for coming over to this section of the forum.

Hunting, killing, eating meat is not wrong... Depending.

Consuming another's flesh is the naturally evolved order of things - but does that mean it's right? Yes for those who have no choice, who are unconscious of the larger context and at the same time have no alternative - because they are barely above animals themselves, and in effect are still part of their world.

It's all about context and consciousness and yes, technology, because even plants have feelings.

The implication is that some day we will have the will and the ability to survive without having to take life from anything else. Why wouldn't that be a good thing? Because you miss the 'good old days' of killing, dismembering and consuming?

I am certainly not there myself - but I am not immune to the inherent logic of natural values either - such as the hypocrisy of stating all life is sacred, then saying out of the other side of my mouth how it's sacred as long as I win, I survive, I kill, and am not killed.

But there will always be those who cling to old ways, even in thought, to the comfort of the familiar, no matter what pain or end that means to another life form.

And that too is but a step along the path, with the next step just waiting - just out of reach - to be taken.

[Pagandell]

Hi Kioma.

Do you eat meat.

Originally Posted by Pagandell

Hi Kioma.

Do you eat meat.

I do! That's why I say I'm not there yet.

But I am also cognizant of the moral dilemma. Did I not lay it out quite clearly?

I am cognizant of many such moral dilemmas, balancing physical being, which is immediate and demanding, and spiritual consciousness, which is beyond time - which is why I say I was born before mine.

And you know, this is exactly why it's the 'Elephant in the room'.

I tell myself, 'It's okay, because I wouldn't survive if I didn't eat meat.'. Ghandi himself tried to be vegetarian, but had health problems, so had to face the moral dilemma of morality versus survival head on. He chose to live.

So what does this mean? Well, in my opinion, it means we, even at this iPhone, internet, budding space travel stage, are really barely above animals ourselves, and really still a part of their world.

But I maintain that eventually our technology will ultimately assist us, and allow us to survive without having to take life from any other organism.




….if we so choose.