no need

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

In every tradition the highest state of being is always associated with bliss.

Brahman, bliss.

Rigpa, bliss.

Sahaja, bliss.

Silence is bliss.

Energy is bliss.

It is the obstructions that keep one from realizing it but it is always there.

This guy is in bliss, methinks:

https://www.facebook.com/human.stupi...6933633233965/

[django]

As a beginner you will have experiences of bliss, clarity or non-conceptuality,which will mask the face of your true nature. So if you free it from this shell of attachment-to-experience, and lay bare the actual face of rigpa, then wisdom will shine out from within. There is a saying:

The more it is disrupted,
The better the meditation of a yogin.
The further it has to drop,
The greater the force of a waterfall.

So, "Stillness and bliss, clarity and thinking: disrupt them, again and again," Meditative experiences of stillness, bliss, or clarity will obscure the rigpa when they arise, and so they must be disrupted.

“How to disrupt them?” you might ask. Whenever experiences of stillness, bliss or clarity arise, or feelings of joy, glee or delight, you must pulverize your shell of attachment to experience, shattering it as if by a bolt of lightning, with the forceful sound of ‘phat!’ which is the combination of ‘pha’, the syllable of skilful means that concentrates and gathers and ‘ṭa’, the syllable of prajna which cuts through.

Dzogchen: Heart Essence of the Great Perfection by The Dalai Lama pages 74-75

[django]

Bliss - Anandamaya kosha

Anandamaya kosha is the most interior of the koshas, the first of the koshas surrounding the Atman, the eternal center of consciousness. Ananda means bliss. However, it is not bliss as a mere emotion experienced at the level of the sheath of mind. Ananda is a whole different order of reality from that of the mind. It is peace, joy, and love that is underneath, beyond the mind, independent of any reason or stimulus to cause a happy mental reaction. It is simply being, resting in bliss called ananda.

Yet, even this bliss, however wonderful it is, is still a covering, a sheath, a lampshade covering the pure light of consciousness. It is the subtle most of the five koshas. In the silence of deep meditation, this too is let go of, so as to experience the center.

Swami j

http://www.swamij.com/koshas.htm

[jonesboy]

Yes, bliss is at many stages along the path. One can get caught up in it and you have to let it go, move beyond the attachment of how good it feels.

That is one of the main lessons of Shine with Object, the very first stage in Dzogchen meditation. With the experience of silence comes bliss.

Energy can feel very blissful and people get very caught up in. Think it is all about sex and as you can see many people get caught up in astral sex.

All things you have to let go of, become non attached to.

As you keep mentioning each one is about beginners:

As a beginner you will have experiences of bliss, clarity or non-conceptuality,which will mask the face of your true nature.

In Hinduism in the AV tradition one is to realize they are part of Brahman.

In Hinduism, Brahman connotes the highest Universal Principle, the Ultimate Reality in the universe.[1][2][3] In major schools of Hindu philosophy, it is the material, efficient, formal and final cause of all that exists.[2][4][5] It is the pervasive, genderless, infinite, eternal truth and bliss which does not change, yet is the cause of all changes

With regard to Buddhism your statement is along these lines as I said earlier.

Having attained this exalted and blissful state of realization as far as it can be attained by disciples, the Bodhisattva must not give himself up to the enjoyment of its bliss, for that would mean cessation, but should think compassionately of other beings and keep ever fresh his original vows; he should never let himself rest nor exert himself in the bliss of the Samádhis.

This next quote is again talking about not being attached to the bliss.

The second kind of sustaining power is the power radiating from the Tathágatas that enables the Bodhisattvas to attain and to pass through the various Samádhis and Samapattis without becoming intoxicated by their bliss.

Here is the Buddha talking about the Highest Reality.

Highest Reality is an exalted state of bliss, it is not a state of word-discrimination, and it cannot be entered into by mere statements concerning it. The Tathágatas have a better way of teaching, namely, through self-realization of Noble Wisdom.

In addition, talking about the bliss of the realization of Noble Wisdom

The Dhyana of the Tathágatas is the Dhyana of those who are entering upon the stage of Tathágata-hood and who, abiding in the triple bliss, which characterizes the self-realization of Noble Wisdom, are devoting themselves for the sake of all beings to the accomplishment of incomprehensible works for their emancipation. This is the pure Dhyana of the Tathágatas

Switching traditions here is the great Abhinavagupta talking about what it is like to be One like Siva or to realize Universal Consciousness.

Heart, says Abhinavagupta, is the very Self of Siva, of Bhairava,

and of the Devi, the Goddess who is inseparable from Siva. Indeed,

the Heart is the site of their union (yamala), of their embrace (samghatta).

This abode is pure consciousness (caitanya) as well as unlimited bliss

(ananda). As consciousness the Heart is the unbounded, infinite light

(prakasa) as well as the freedom (svatantrya) and spontaneity (vimarsa)

of that light to appear in a multitude and variety of forms.

So, bliss is very much a part of the path. At first it is something one has to learn to let go of, to not get caught up in because at multiple stages along the path it can lead to dead ends or you could say you will get caught up in it and stop progressing but in all traditions the ultimate state is one of bliss.

Hope that clears up some confusion.

Also, it is important to note that if you are doing a practice and have been doing it for a long time and have no experience of bliss. You should examine your practice because as django has mentioned it is something that in many traditions beginners should experience.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by davidsun

This guy is in bliss, methinks:

https://www.facebook.com/human.stupi...6933633233965/

Yes

[davidsun]

My (preferred) kind of 'bliss':

https://www.facebook.com/trynottolau...9152474404643/

Or is it 'joy' ... or is it 'happiness' ... or is it 'happy to be alive'-ness ... or is it 'alive'ness ... 'being'ness, maybe?

Somehow the idea of "pure consciousness" doesn't 'cut the mustard' for me - 'cuz the 'hotdog' and the 'roll' are missing in that case!

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by davidsun

My (preferred) kind of 'bliss':

https://www.facebook.com/trynottolau...9152474404643/

Or is it 'joy' ... or is it 'happiness' ... or is it 'happy to be alive'-ness ... or is it 'alive'ness ... 'being'ness, maybe?

Somehow the idea of "pure consciousness" doesn't 'cut the mustard' for me - 'cuz the 'hotdog' and the 'roll' are missing in that case!

All of that is part of it including the hotdog.

Again review what Abhinavagupta has to say.

Heart, says Abhinavagupta, is the very Self of Siva, of Bhairava,

and of the Devi, the Goddess who is inseparable from Siva. Indeed,

the Heart is the site of their union (yamala), of their embrace (samghatta).

This abode is pure consciousness (caitanya) as well as unlimited bliss

(ananda). As consciousness the Heart is the unbounded, infinite light

(prakasa) as well as the freedom (svatantrya) and spontaneity (vimarsa)

of that light to appear in a multitude and variety of forms.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

All of that is part of it including the hotdog.

Yah, but just 'being' 'in' 'bliss' by and for, or 'primarily' by and for, oneself, which it seems to me many here and elsewhere 'do', strikes me as like 'masturbating' compared to experiencing IT in relation to and with others.

Talking about such subjects often ends up just being a 'circle jerk'. FYI: In that regard, I personally experienced your responses to my 'unique' (not simply referencing the verbal allusions of others) contribution to the bliss-'party' to be text-book like reassertions.

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Again review what Abhinavagupta has to say.

Yah, but that just says IT in words which are 'a dime a dozen' allusions! What's in the video actually shows the REAL living thing - i.e. THE Presence of said 'hotdog' 'Being'.

Yes, Jonesboy???

I can 'do' and enjoy 'doing' the 'text-book thing' too, mind you. the From the Gita: "I will speak to thee now of that great Truth which man ought to know, since by its means he will win immortal bliss – that which is without beginning, the Eternal Spirit which dwells in Me, neither with form, nor yet without it. Everywhere are Its hands and Its feet; everywhere It has eyes that see, heads that think and mouths that speak; everywhere It listens; It dwells in all the worlds; It envelops them all. Beyond the senses, It yet shines through every sense perception. Bound to nothing, It yet sustains everything. Unaffected by the Qualities, It still enjoys them all. It is within all beings, yet outside; motionless yet moving; too subtle to be perceived; far away yet always near. In all beings undivided, yet living in division, It is the upholder of all, Creator and Destroyer alike; It is the Light of lights, beyond the reach of darkness; the Wisdom, the only thing that is worth knowing or that wisdom can teach; the Presence in the hearts of all."

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Yah, but just 'being' 'in' 'bliss' by and for, or 'primarily' by and for, oneself, which it seems to me many here and elsewhere 'do', strikes me as like 'masturbating' compared to experiencing IT in relation to and with others.

Talking about such subjects often ends up just being a 'circle jerk'. FYI: In that regard, I personally experienced your responses to my 'unique' (not simply referencing the verbal allusions of others) contribution to the bliss-'party' to be text-book like reassertions.


Yah, but that just says IT in words which are 'a dime a dozen' allusions! What's in the video actually shows the REAL living thing - i.e. THE Presence of said 'hotdog' 'Being'.

Yes, Jonesboy???

I can 'do' and enjoy 'doing' the 'text-book thing' too, mind you. the From the Gita: "I will speak to thee now of that great Truth which man ought to know, since by its means he will win immortal bliss – that which is without beginning, the Eternal Spirit which dwells in Me, neither with form, nor yet without it. Everywhere are Its hands and Its feet; everywhere It has eyes that see, heads that think and mouths that speak; everywhere It listens; It dwells in all the worlds; It envelops them all. Beyond the senses, It yet shines through every sense perception. Bound to nothing, It yet sustains everything. Unaffected by the Qualities, It still enjoys them all. It is within all beings, yet outside; motionless yet moving; too subtle to be perceived; far away yet always near. In all beings undivided, yet living in division, It is the upholder of all, Creator and Destroyer alike; It is the Light of lights, beyond the reach of darkness; the Wisdom, the only thing that is worth knowing or that wisdom can teach; the Presence in the hearts of all."

You are not in Bliss, that is dualistic. It is part of your Natural state of being. Bliss is part or an aspect of that Presence, that realization :)

Again, all you have to do is practice and realize bliss. It is not something negative or only in books. For those who don't practice it will always be out of reach.

The Gita would agree with the following that I posted earlier.

In Hinduism, Brahman connotes the highest Universal Principle, the Ultimate Reality in the universe.[1][2][3] In major schools of Hindu philosophy, it is the material, efficient, formal and final cause of all that exists.[2][4][5] It is the pervasive, genderless, infinite, eternal truth and bliss which does not change, yet is the cause of all changes

If you don't believe that bliss is possible, that it is only in books, that it is something bad. Nothing I can say will change your mind. I have had way to many debates where people who don't experience it want to say it is not part of the path or something bad.

Bliss is the very first thing you experience when you meditate and experience silence. It is very blissful.. to argue says a lot..

Have a good day everyone.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Bliss is the very first thing you experience when you meditate and experience silence. It is very blissful.. to argue says a lot.

I agree (i.e. also 'see') with a lot of what you say (you 'see), Jonesboy.

But I wish to reiterate (in words) what the 'actions' and 'ex-press-ions' in the video clearly demonstrate: the critters did not have to meditate or experience silence to experience 'bliss' (or whatever one wishes to 'call' IT).

Like 'meditation' and 'being silent', my 'argument' (as you experienced my 'sayings') was/is meant to prod people get 'out' of their 'head' trips and 'into' their 'hearts' which, according the Gita at least, is where the Presence actually resides and lives.

Lip-service also will not get one there, I dare say!

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Have a good day everyone.

Have a good day yourself!