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  #31  
Old 01-12-2018, 08:51 AM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chanine
Witness is applicable when there is an object to be seen. Then it is duality

Ramana Marharshi

That is an excellent Ramana Maharshi quote. While witnessing is most assuredly an intermediate step, as Ramana clearly states, not very many people understand that. Witnessing is indeed still duality.

Great post !
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  #32  
Old 01-12-2018, 05:44 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
The practice of Shabd Yoga has two components, meditation on the Sound and meditation on the Light.
Meditation on the Sound involves tuning in to the Sound Current which is continuous and unchanging.
On going deeper, it is felt as vibration drawing one inwards.
Meditation on the Light begins with an inner eye of brilliant Light at the brow chakra, and at the centre of this Light there is a dark point.
This dark centre has been described as the beginning of the spiritual path. The meditator concentrates on this dark centre which
then reveals its own shining luminosity.
Becoming immersed in the Light and the Sound we lose our sense of the separate self.
Peace.
I couldn't have said it better...meditators get what we are saying.
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*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)


Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
.


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  #33  
Old 01-12-2018, 06:22 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
P.S. The Light aspect of Shabd Yoga seems to correspond to the Edgar Cayce experience. Does Shabd Yoga indicate that one or the other are sufficient ?

Shabd Yoga usually incorporates both Light and Sound and there are different techniques for each. Some people find that meditation on the Sound is easier, while others find the Light easier.

There is another technique which enables meditation on both simultaneously but I find doing them separately is more effective. I know some people who hear Sound while doing the Light techniques or see Light while doing the Sound technique, but alas, my concentration is usually insufficient to get deep enough to enjoy both at the same time.

Peace.
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  #34  
Old 02-12-2018, 10:41 AM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Shabd Yoga usually incorporates both Light and Sound and there are different techniques for each. Some people find that meditation on the Sound is easier, while others find the Light easier.

There is another technique which enables meditation on both simultaneously but I find doing them separately is more effective. I know some people who hear Sound while doing the Light techniques or see Light while doing the Sound technique, but alas, my concentration is usually insufficient to get deep enough to enjoy both at the same time.

Peace.

In the case of Edgar Casey, he only experienced the Light according to his readings. I only experience the sound, the subtler vibrations of which one becomes aware once the grosser sound vibrations of thoughts are stilled.

Since I was unaware of the Shabd techniques, this happened quite naturally and I find myself drawn to the Source of the subtler vibrations/sounds (the "Word" becoming flesh) with the intuitive understanding that this will facilitate a re-connection with the Source. (Many years ago, I had experiences of colors and light, but that was not as compelling.) For me, this is not a question of choosing the "easier" technique; it is simply a matter of following one's pure intuition on how best to re-connect with the Source. My sense is that either approach is sufficient depending on the temperament of the meditator.

In any case, thanks for your informed responses. It's encouraging to know that Shabd Yoga points to an approach that I came upon quite naturally and spontaneously.

P.S. I just read an article on Shabd Yoga and it seems to utilize a mantra such as "OM" (or others). (That is an approach to which I gravitated quite naturally for other reasons and NOT as a technique to experience the sound Shabd. The "sound" just happened, and I now have some understanding regarding why it is happening and continues to happen. My sense is that the sound is not an end in itself but rather a means to proceeding to the next step.) After having written the above, I noticed that the article talks about "colors and light" at the ajna chakra just as I had experienced many years ago. (My teacher always said not to get obsessed with visions, colors and lights as they can become a distraction and eventually hold one back or develop a sense of pride and accomplishment, which obviously can create issues.) The subtle sound vibrations, however, have become far more compelling over the last few years.

If I may ask, what has been your direct experience, as opposed to repeating the Shabd Yoga theory? When something resonates, my approach is to validate though, in this particular case, the validation is coming after the fact since I've had the experience and am only now learning about the theory. My teacher NEVER developed expectations of results as that can easily become a self-fulfilling prophecy (as the expression goes). If one concentrates on seeing colors and light, my sense is that one will eventually conjure up a visionary experience of colors and light as the mind can play some insidious tricks on one who meditates and give one a false sense of progress.

https://www.stylecraze.com/articles/...abd-yoga/#gref
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  #35  
Old 02-12-2018, 11:07 AM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
I couldn't have said it better...meditators get what we are saying.

As you duly noted, meditators do indeed get a sense of what is being said about the "sound and light" Shabd meditative technique being discussed here. However, now, let's go a step deeper to where this all leads.

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  #36  
Old 02-12-2018, 05:04 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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'Q:... Tulsidas and others are said to have seen Maha Vishnu. How did they see Him?
RM: In what manner? Just in the same manner as you see me now and I see you here.
They would also have seen Vishnu in this way only.


.......
Still Waters, Where does all this lead ? Shabd meditation...short answer: Bliss.
Longer answer: As a consequence, wisdom and insights galore, peace and confidence extraordinaire, power and patience humbly...basically seeing God within all.
A supernatural transformation that can only happen when one
experiences Divine Love....
and that It is permeating all ...every rock, every vacuumous space light years away....the infinite and the infinitesimal.
PS This is our destiny....might as well get used to the idea....your ego is yesterday's news!! Boring, humdrum...useless for our purposes.
__________________

.
*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)


Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
.


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  #37  
Old 03-12-2018, 02:34 AM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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[quote=Miss Hepburn]'Q:... Tulsidas and others are said to have seen Maha Vishnu. How did they see Him?
RM: In what manner? Just in the same manner as you see me now and I see you here.
They would also have seen Vishnu in this way only.


***

Wow!
Deeper the truth
The simpler it is
If elucidated
By a seer!

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  #38  
Old 03-12-2018, 03:34 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
'Q:... Tulsidas and others are said to have seen Maha Vishnu. How did they see Him?
RM: In what manner? Just in the same manner as you see me now and I see you here.
They would also have seen Vishnu in this way only.


.......
Still Waters, Where does all this lead ? Shabd meditation...short answer: Bliss.
Longer answer: As a consequence, wisdom and insights galore, peace and confidence extraordinaire, power and patience humbly...basically seeing God within all.
A supernatural transformation that can only happen when one
experiences Divine Love....
and that It is permeating all ...every rock, every vacuumous space light years away....the infinite and the infinitesimal.
PS This is our destiny....might as well get used to the idea....your ego is yesterday's news!! Boring, humdrum...useless for our purposes.

It's interesting that you should choose that quote from Ramana Maharshi and I agree with it completely. When I was at the Khumba Mela in Haridwar, India, in 1998, there was a being who appeared out of nowhere to my friend and myself in an open field with no one else in sight. Without being asked, he answered my pressing question in six simple words that were completely satisfying. Just as mysteriously, he vanished immediately thereafter. Who was he? Maha Vishnu? Shiva ? Who knows? In any case, the two of us rushed back to the ashram where my spiritual mentor was sitting with various sages. As we recounted the story and described the extraordinary being, they just looked at us in knowing silence. Finally, my spiritual mentor spoke and identified the being as "Sri <don't recall his name>". Knowing the being whom we had just described (since he had been at a bandara/feast the previous day on which occasion the entire spiritual hierarchy had bowed to him and had touched his feet), she added that "he does this from time to time; everyone knows that". She reminded us that this was an auspicious happening upon which we should meditate throughout the day IN SILENCE.

Hence, Ramana Maharshi's response to that question resonates well with me. This being appeared like everyone else and yet, as one can surmise, he was quite different. (It should be noted that this experience has happened more than once in my lifetime, but this particular experience was chosen because others were involved and this was not a personal hallucination which had come to mind initially.) There is more to the story but that should suffice.

As for your response to my question, your longer answer was intriguing though the "bliss" response in the shorter answer didn't do much for me since that word ("bliss") is so often over-used that has become virtually meaningless at least for me.

Since you mentioned in your longer answer that you see God in all (with which I agree completely), what is the process whereby you shift attention from the universal (for lack of a better word) to the personal/actor role? As sages have often said, pointedly stating and acting like God is in all creates some obvious difficulties in functioning in the so-called "normal" society.

In keeping with this question, I will cite one of my favorite Zen quotes: "Equality without differentiation is poor equality; differentiation without equality is poor differentiation."
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  #39  
Old 03-12-2018, 06:03 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
Since you mentioned in your longer answer that you see God in all (with which I agree completely),
what is the process whereby you shift attention from the universal (for lack of a better word) to the personal/actor role?

As sages have often said, pointedly stating and acting like God is in all creates some
obvious difficulties in functioning in the so-called "normal" society.
Great story....oh my! Reminds me of Mary Baker's, if alive still, prob 90.
At 15 with a friend in a field going off to get in 'trouble' (Arkansas?)...a man appeared to both...changing their lives
forever...later she realized it was Jesus.

Comment: I am sorry the word bliss means little to you...I ignore how others use it flippantly...
would Spiritual-ecstasy-entwined-with-profound-knowledge work better? Ha!

You kinda ans'd your own question to me! Ha!
I deliberately 'shift my attention'...I stop, breathe, get centered and expand my awareness is all....to what?
To what 'Is'....to Reality! Ha!

What that means for my mind to lock onto with pleasure is the Truth of the situation....
the 'situation' being: here I am looking out of these eyes at things that are simply not real...
I am looking at things, people, pets that are not people, things or pets AT ALL!

God is the Cosmic-Shape Shifter....He makes things look like a wall....you think the wall there is a wall?
Oh my God, no...it's love...it is atoms vibrating at a certain speed and distance apart with a certain
amt of electrons to appear as a wall....being held together consciously to maintain that appearance...by a superior power, the Divine Mind...
Whose Presence is palpable.

All around you at this second you are being bombarded by thousands of waves...radio waves, UHF waves,
cosmic rays from outer space...they are going thru your roof and right thru your body passing into the ground.
Example: Get a receptor to pick up these 1000s of waves...a shortwave radio, an AM-FM radio, a TV....and turn the dials.

WE are the receptors for God's Divine Cosmic Infinite Frequency within everything.
So tune to It...To His Divine Presence daily.

It will become so easy like practicing looking at a 3D picture and suddenly
your vision
changes and you see the elephant that was 'always' right there.


Does that help? :) Such a pleasure to have a kindred spirit to chat with!
__________________

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*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)


Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
.


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  #40  
Old 03-12-2018, 07:29 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
P.S. I just read an article on Shabd Yoga and it seems to utilize a mantra such as "OM" (or others). (That is an approach to which I gravitated quite naturally for other reasons and NOT as a technique to experience the sound Shabd. The "sound" just happened, and I now have some understanding regarding why it is happening and continues to happen. My sense is that the sound is not an end in itself but rather a means to proceeding to the next step.) After having written the above, I noticed that the article talks about "colors and light" at the ajna chakra just as I had experienced many years ago. (My teacher always said not to get obsessed with visions, colors and lights as they can become a distraction and eventually hold one back or develop a sense of pride and accomplishment, which obviously can create issues.) The subtle sound vibrations, however, have become far more compelling over the last few years.

Many spiritual writings emphasise repeating the Name of God through japa, so people repeat Ram or OM or whatever their preference is. I would suggest that the true repetition of the Name of God is meditation on Divine Sound. Some people talk about Shabd Yoga and give a mantra, saying that if you repeat the mantra then eventually you might hear the Sound. My own experience was that I was initiated into Light and Sound through shaktipat.

Guru Nanak was one teacher who taught the importance of the Name of God. One website gives the following:

Naam, Shabad, or Word, is the quintessence of Sikh spirituality and is mentioned 2546 times in the Sikh Holy Scripture, the Guru Granth Sahib, literally meaning the Name of Gods or God. But what exactly is Naam and why is it so important?

Naam is the great creative and controlling power of God. Naam has no beginning and no end. It is unchanging, ancient and eternal and it is the life current which pervades the entire creation.

Naam is characterised by sweet strains and melodious tunes and powerful light which can be seen and witnessed. This sound current is active in the whole of creation. This is one of the ways humans experience this phenomenon within themselves.

Our mind is always in a state of oscillation and all the time our mental faculties are always flowing outward into the world. Never for a moment have they known any rest. Until we internalise our focus and allow the mind to become purified and stilled, one cannot listen to the reverberations of the sound current.

Naam, the primal sound current is in fact only one continuous vibration. However as it steps down through 5 different planes of existence, with their varying degrees of density, the frequency of Naam changes and this creates the ‘Panj Shabad’, the five distinct melodies, which are contained within the mantra Sat Naam.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji, the first Sikh Master, enumerates the many advantages that accrue from the hearing and acceptance of Naam by saying:

“By communion with Naam, one can attain the status of a super human being with spiritual powers, a god and a yoga master. By communion with Naam, the earthly regions, the heavens and the nether regions stand revealed. By communion with Naam one becomes immortal. Says Nanak, God’s devotees live in perpetual ecstasy for the Naam washes away all sin and sorrow.”


Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
If I may ask, what has been your direct experience, as opposed to repeating the Shabd Yoga theory? When something resonates, my approach is to validate though, in this particular case, the validation is coming after the fact since I've had the experience and am only now learning about the theory. My teacher NEVER developed expectations of results as that can easily become a self-fulfilling prophecy (as the expression goes). If one concentrates on seeing colors and light, my sense is that one will eventually conjure up a visionary experience of colors and light as the mind can play some insidious tricks on one who meditates and give one a false sense of progress.

As I said, I was initiated into Light and Sound through shaktipat nearly 40 years ago. I was also taught the meditation techniques. This has been my main practice ever since.

My direct experience was that I heard Sound and saw Light. At my initiation it was very strong. Doing it on my own afterwards it was much fainter. I struggled with meditation throughout the first year, but I persisted. Then it became much stronger, and the Sound would fill my head and sometimes descend into the body. The Light would become brilliant and the dark centre you mentioned earlier would become very clearly defined. In longer meditates it becomes very powerful.

Obviously this is a practice which suits me - perhaps it may not resonate with others.

Peace.
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