encouraging accidental suicide

Not really?

Quote: Assisted suicide
In many jurisdictions it is a crime to assist others, directly or indirectly, in taking their own lives. In some jurisdictions, it is also illegal to encourage them to do so. Sometimes an exception applies for physician assisted suicide (PAS), under strict conditions.

It seems you are side stepping the issue i am trying to address regardless of how clearly i put the question. The legislation is in favour of ending suffering under strict conditions by a physician and it is not in question here.

Ill put it another way, The question is are you or anyone else that is not a qualified physician in these forums in a position to counsel anyone toward suicide? This can be answered with a yes or no answer, its clear cut.

We all have ip addresses and can be held accountable for our actions. You are challenging the law... not me on this issue Trieah and i cant fathom what would possess you to take this stance but i have seen stranger things in forums.

My sister was in a Vegetative state for 11 years due to a disease that was incurable. She had to be tube fed through her nose but she loved the sun on her face and would smile at my Mom's touch. She died in my arms when she was 13 I was 9. She took grand mauls had bleeding ulcers had to have a suction machine used to suck the mucus out of her lungs cause she was not strong enough to cough it up. Yet she would smile when I held her hand and would watch me play around the house and giggle. Do you mean to tell me you would have killed her? Or assisted in her death?
My sister faught her entire life since she was 3 yrs old to stay alive. Even though she to you would not have much of a life.
She died fighting to be alive at the age of 13 weighing 36 lbs.
I know beyond the word of a doubt if she could have spoken she would have asked to live.
We are not to judge what life is better then another or who deserves to die and who does not.
Do you remember Terri Schiavo? They starved her to death to kill her.
This discribes the symptoms of starvation http://chestofbooks.com/health/nutri...-Symptoms.html
It is not our call to decide what is more humane it is however our call to decide that all life is sacred and should be encouraged not discouraged.
Suicide is not pretty no matter how you do it. So many left questions by the family and such pain to put loved ones through.
If I ever found out someone assisted my mother or father or sister or loved one in a suicide because they thought her life wasnt worth nothing because there life was different then the norm, I would pity them because I honestly have no clue onto what I would do or how I would handle it.

[Dragonfly1]

My heart goes out to you Occultist, and I am in awe of your beautiful sister who saw the beauty in life no matter what...she must have been a huge inspiration to you. You were such a tender age to witness her sad loss.....you are very fortunate to have had her in your life .....blessings and peace x

On the contrary. It has been my position all along that it is a highly personal decision that is up to the individual to make.

If a terminally ill or elderly person wishes to enjoy every single minute they have left, then by all means, they should be allowed to do so.

But if a terminally ill or elderly person does not wish to endure every single minute they have left, then why should they be forced to do so?

There is a huge difference between whether someone thinks their life, or quality of, is worth it or not. And other people thinking someone else's life, or quality of, is worth it or not. That includes both agreeing and disagreeing. But I have never once said that someone else's poor quality of life is something that I personally would deem unworthy. So please do not misinterpret what it is that I have said.

The hospital starved my own grandmother to death. And hospice starved my second stepdad to death. And it still hurt every bit as much to know they were each being slowly starved to death, as it would have if they were given an injection to speed up the process, so they wouldn't of had to endure such a slow process. But I suppose only animals and criminal are allowed that privilege to have it all be over quickly.

And that, is why I've been saying all along that it is an incredibly subjective tricky subject. Not every single person in that type of situation is going to have the exact same feelings on the matter. And yet if someone who thinks they should have enough right over their own body, lives in an area outside a jurisdiction where strict conditions might offer them a solution, then they are forced to live under a "one size fits all" law.

I have not sidestepped your question. I do believe I've already given you my answer a few pages ago. As well as mentioned that I have already discouraged someone on this very message board from committing suicide. In fact, to my knowledge, I don't recall ever encouraging anyone to commit suicide, whether it was on this board or not. I've always tried to talk them out of it.

But, just because I do agree that people on this message board should not be allowed to encourage another person to commit suicide, that does not mean I have blinded myself to the potential harm in forcing everyone under one set of rules. Especially when the actual intention behind what a person might say to someone in that predicament, could be so easily misunderstood by others, as encouraging suicide, when the actual intent to do so was never there. Should that person then be banned from the message board, just because someone else misinterpreted what they said?

Not only do I stand up against someone encouraging an already suicidal person to go ahead and commit suicide. But I also stand up for the person who is wrongfully accused of encouraging a suicidal person to commit suicide.

And no I'm not really concerned about whether or not the law is going to hunt down my IP address to throw me in jail for speaking my peace about this subject. There are all kinds of other things that are against the law that people talk about all over the internet as well. But um. . . for the record, if I ever were ever put in the position where I was in some kind of really bad accident out in the middle of now where, with someone who was so badly injured that there was no chance of saving them, and no help coming. I'd first do everything that I could do to help them. But if they looked me calmly in the eye and told me to let them go, I would do as they asked. It may hurt like hell, and feel like my guts were being ripped right out of my chest. And I may even scream at the top of my lungs in agony afterwards, maybe even cradle their body in my arms. But yes, I would help release them from their suffering if they asked me to. In that type of a situation, I don't give a damn that I'm not a physician.

Occultist, I am so sorry that you had to live through that with your sister. And I hope you now have a better understanding of what I was trying to say. But, you don't need to tell me how suicide is not pretty. I was on my hands and knees, wiping up the puddle of congealed blood and cranial fluid with paper towels after my stepdad shot himself. It wasn't pretty.

Originally Posted by Trieah

But, just because I do agree that people on this message board should not be allowed to encourage another person to commit suicide, that does not mean I have blinded myself to the potential harm in forcing everyone under one set of rules. Especially when the actual intention behind what a person might say to someone in that predicament, could be so easily misunderstood by others, as encouraging suicide, when the actual intent to do so was never there. Should that person then be banned from the message board, just because someone else misinterpreted what they said?

I have suggested that maybe warnings before banning should be put in place, but you seem to have missed it. This has been discussed already.

Originally Posted by Trieah

Not only do I stand up against someone encouraging an already suicidal person to go ahead and commit suicide. But I also stand up for the person who is wrongfully accused of encouraging a suicidal person to commit suicide.

I suppose that every word in the english dictionary has a meaning so that others can understand what is meant by saying those words. Maybe those that post in regard to suicide need to be very carefull what words they use and not rely on the context of the whole post to bring clarity to the words that have been chosen by them.

Originally Posted by Trieah

And no I'm not really concerned about whether or not the law is going to hunt down my IP address to throw me in jail for speaking my peace about this subject..

That was a general statement to highlight that we all need to be accountable on this site as we are still accountable in the real world according to the law. It wasn't aimed at you personally but i can see how you came to that conclusion as it was part of a paragraph that concerned you. my apologies

Originally Posted by Trieah

. But um. . . for the record, if I ever were ever put in the position where I was in some kind of really bad accident out in the middle of now where, with someone who was so badly injured that there was no chance of saving them, and no help coming. I'd first do everything that I could do to help them. But if they looked me calmly in the eye and told me to let them go, I would do as they asked. It may hurt like hell, and feel like my guts were being ripped right out of my chest. And I may even scream at the top of my lungs in agony afterwards, maybe even cradle their body in my arms. But yes, I would help release them from their suffering if they asked me to. In that type of a situation, I don't give a damn that I'm not a physician.

It saddens me that you feel you are qualified to make the judgement that this person was in their right mind and not consider that they may be in a state of shock and unable to make life critical decisions. Also that their request was purely a reflex to escape temporary pain.
If this ever happens to you in realtity please consider that it may be my daughter and that she loves life but doesnt cope well with pain and please save her from her temporary insanity.

I want to thank you Trieah for challenging the way i think but i feel that i have to stand with those that have shown their support that suicide should be discouraged and not encouraged within forums by unqualified members.

Im sorry to all those that have followed this thread to be lead toward such horror and tragedy as a result of my raising an issue concerning encouraging suicide. Thankyou to all that have supported the issue an offered your advice on addressing the issue.

I am especially sorry to you occultist for all that you have been through and that you have felt the need to relive and highlight the tragedy of you and your families struggles to assist me in my cause. I applaude you occultist for going to such lenghts to open up your heart and soul in a public display to make a change in society and our community.

I never considered that this thread would largely become a soap box for those opposed to my cause and i am deeply sorry if anyone has had the light of their day dimmed as mine has been.

I believe i have all the input i need to address the issue and i thank you all for helping me come to the conclusion that i will endeavour to assist the prevention of suicide.

[Dragonfly1]

You're welcome Res...don't allow naysayers to dim your day.....you're heart is in the right place and light shines from it......blessings and peace xx

Originally Posted by Trieah

Would it be too much trouble to ask for a link to this particular thread in question, so that I may see what's going on for myself?

The Thread is entitled, "A Readiness to Die" and it is in the Death & The Afterlife section.

I have caught up on all the posts here and I still maintain that StarSkye (who started the thread) is not suicidal.

Peace and Love on your path to doing your own research and deciding for yourself...

Blessed be...

This thread was based on a lot of threads not jus t one. i dont know why you keep repeating yourself when starskye clarified the context of her thread and i have no issue with starskye but if you want me to highlight statements that did concern me iil be glad to meet you both in that thread. this thread is about prevention and if you are opposed to that have your say here by all means

Originally Posted by res

It saddens me that you feel you are qualified to make the judgement that this person was in their right mind and not consider that they may be in a state of shock and unable to make life critical decisions. Also that their request was purely a reflex to escape temporary pain.
If this ever happens to you in realtity please consider that it may be my daughter and that she loves life but doesnt cope well with pain and please save her from her temporary insanity.

No offense, but what part of "so badly injured that there was no chance of saving them, and no help coming." means that a person was merely in shock and would have pulled through on their own? And why do you think that I wouldn't take into consideration that they may only be in shock? Or that their injuries were manageable? As I've stated many times through out this thread, that everything is dependent on the severity and direness of the individual situation. Just because I didn't get into complete graphic details of what is and is not considered a fatal injury, doesn't mean I consider every kind of wound to be life threatening and therefor the person needs to be put out of their misery. What? Do you think I'm some kind of cold hearted monster who just likes seeing people die?

Not even medical doctors can save every single person who is fatally wounded, and doubly so when they have no medical equipment or facilities available to them. And while I am not a medical doctor, I do work in the medical field. I've taken several classes in first aid, sports medicine, and have even forced myself to have a strong enough stomach in these kinds of situations for the soul purpose of being able to do every single thing that I could do to help save a person, instead of being completely useless, or freaking out and going hysterical like some people tend to do.

Originally Posted by res

I want to thank you Trieah for challenging the way i think but i feel that i have to stand with those that have shown their support that suicide should be discouraged and not encouraged within forums by unqualified members.

Show me where I have been in support of members of this message board encouraging suicide in other members on this message board. There's no need to separate me from that group who support what you are trying to accomplish. I thought I made it clear, that I do support what you're doing, but I guess I still haven't been able to convince you of that.

You've asked me several times, just when encouraging suicide would be ok, and I have only given you examples, but without the entire graphic descriptions to go along with them. This is after all a family message board. You never specified that I was only to consider the situations that would only happen on this message board. I'm sorry that my brain looks at every single type of situation, with every single set of circumstances that could actually happen in the real world outside of the internet, whether they be good, bad or ugly.

I suppose it doesn't help much that one of my goals as a psychic medium, is to get inside criminal minds, in order to help police profile and catch serial killers. So yes, I can think of a heck of a lot of the very worst of the worst case scenarios that can and do happen. Trust me, you don't want to know what those are.

Originally Posted by res

I never considered that this thread would largely become a soap box for those opposed to my cause and i am deeply sorry if anyone has had the light of their day dimmed as mine has been.

Again, I am not opposed to your idea. But don't ask a person to explain their self, or ask questions of them, if you are not truly willing to hear an answer.

So anyone who is in a trauma and is sick and depressed and wants to die we should kill? Also you said animals commit suicide? Really? I have never seen a suicidal animal. Killing people is not a joy and happiness thing. Why are you so determined to help someone murder themselves then stand up and say you do have the right to live or die. IMO if someone in a hospice wanted to starve my sister I would have tube fed her and nurished her. If you dislike starving people in Hospice why dont you take it to the Goverment make a pole ask questions get signatures and make a diff, Instead of killing people. Trieah you are a good person with a kind soul and I agree on many of your opinions but this is where we have to agree to disagree cause this could go on forever.