Okay from a neo-pagans p.o.v. what do you think....

Originally Posted by LadyMoondancer

Many women embraced it because they got tired of being ignored by the very religion they were raised in.

Have to say this is not my experience, most pagans I know have followed a path that they found on their own only to find that it has a name...... paganism (or one of it's sub-classes)

A lot of people get interested in Wicca and/or witchcraft because of Harry Potter, Charmed, Bewitched, Practical Magic and Hocus Pocus. It's so "cool."
As they delve further into it, they see either it's not for them, or they feel as though they were "coming home" to their true path.

Yes some youngsters come to it through the hollywood version but you tend to find they soon loose interest when they find that they can't be one of the hollywood type of witches with sparks coming out of their plastic wand.

Originally Posted by tilia

*splutter cough* I beg your pardon! Run that by me again? What is British Traditional Wicca??

http://www.wicca.cc/page5.htm

[norseman]

Originally Posted by tilia

*splutter cough* I beg your pardon! Run that by me again? What is British Traditional Wicca??

Beat me to it there, Tilia. Makes me laugh for two reasons. Firstly, no such thing in Britain - BTW is British Traditional Witchcraft. Tradition ? - I have socks older than wicca !

"A: British Traditional Wicca (BTW) is the name we give to a number of denominations of Wiccans who have received (via initiatory lineage) and maintain an established body of lore and practice passed down from generation to generation. The best known of these are the Gardnerians, of which there are distinct British and American branches. Alexandrians, Mohsians and (California) Central Valley Wicca are also British Traditionals. " from wicca.cc
Now this is THE thing that really winds me up ! Witchcraft, and it's off-shoot wicca, is embedded in British heritage and culture

"(California) Central Valley Wicca are also British Traditionals" - how can a version of wicca created in California be Brit. Trad. Call it American Traditional if you like but not British because it isn't !

"established body of lore and practice passed down from generation to generation. " Gardnerian wicca is about 50 years old. Generations ?

Originally Posted by Animus27

http://www.wicca.cc/page5.htm

I read the first few lines and turned off... this is one person's opinion. Remember, when you are dealing with paganism you will get a LOT of people who say thier truth is the only truth, and they will say it loudly and vehemently. It is STILL only their opinion as there is no "one truth" when it comes to paganism.

You might well find there is a group that call themselves BTW, but I'm guessing that title will be self appointed. I have never heard of them.

I would be interested to learn who wrote this and whether they have ever been to the UK let alone talked to British pagans.

I have to say I'm quite uncomfortable with these comments and the implications to what people think of wiccans in the UK.

[norseman]

"I have to say I'm quite uncomfortable with these comments and the implications to what people think of wiccans in the UK."

I agree with you, Tilia. The thread is getting dangerously close to Witch Wars territory.

I think your missing the big point of that link.

It strickly states that wicca was a british belief before hitting mainstream, and "proper" practitioners ( im assuming the ones with the lineage), dissagree that anyone else practicing it, should use the term "wiccan".

I can understand this, can you imagine someone totaly going against the bible, yet still calling themselves a devout christian? Think of jow the jewish felt when rome took their religion as their own?

One should choose whatever beliefs that work for them. Others can’t really made these decisions for them.

[norseman]

Time, truth is that there is a yawning gulf between UK and US on the subject of wicca, and the cause is a matter of heritage and culture.
UK pagan since the Neolithic and it is dubious whether it has ever been christian under a thin skin.
Whereas, US founded as a christian country with no pagan background [ putting aside the Native American heritage]
Just a short distance away, I can be at a pagan holy site, prechristian, and overlaid by a thousand year-old christian cathedral. A little bit further and I can be at a 3000 year-old henge which is still used at pagan festivals.
The link given is American and is in error about Brit. Trad Wicca - it does not exist in UK !
As I suggested to you elsewhere, check out wicca and witchcraft in books from British Universities.

Originally Posted by Time

I think your missing the big point of that link.

Time, I have no specific issue with the link because I didn't read past the first few lines, the tone said enough to me, the issue I have comes from when Animus said... and I quote again

Through such publications the neo-Wicca version of Wicca (which is unlike the British Traditional Wicca because it's not a mystery fertility cult and has been stripped of it's more, unseemly aspects, such as sexual rites (I'm using cult in the anthropological sense)

Whether this is Animus's words or not it is misinformation and implies that "wiccans" are in it for the sex. As most US readers will think all UK pagans are wiccan that could lead them to a distorted view on what UK pagans are about...

The other issue I have is there is a forum for Wiccans (i.e. US pagans), this is for Paganism... and there very clearly is a difference in this context.... imho

As the general reply to such offense at my use of BTW:

BTW is a useful term to use for lineage based covens of Wicca that are directly connected to the originals founded by ole Gerald Gardner and his protégé. It's not meant to say all Wiccans, nor witches in the UK are BTW *gasp*. There has to be a distinction between self-styled Wiccans/new founded "covens" and initiated ones that usually trace themselves as being connected with Gardner in someway.

Now this is THE thing that really winds me up ! Witchcraft, and it's off-shoot wicca, is embedded in British heritage and culture

How can it be embedded in British culture when you have socks older than it?

Wicca is a religion that uses witchcraft. Witchcraft is a term for some practices of magic. Witchcraft and paganism (which are different, despite some people's notions about them being identical with one another), are not separate. One can be a pagan and practice no witchcraft, in some Hellenic pagans in particular, view it as hubris and therefore impious.

Tilla, I was not insinuating that Wiccans (of the more traditional flavor) just care about sex. But Wicca is a very polarity & fertility based religion, the Horned God & Great Goddess and all that. And because of that the original covens and religious practices created by Gardner involved heavy sexual symbolism, and for some off-shoots of it at least, actual sex between the High Priestess & Priest.