A Vision for Pagan Future

[norseman]

Dont get me started on Wicca, Animus. A manufactured creed at best, dating from the 1950's but with a core of the Craft. After all, Gardner called it New Witchcraft.
"good pool of knowledge of pre-christian faiths" - so agree with that which is why I stick to the meticulously researched books coming out of British academia [ Hutton, Davies, Wilby, etc].
I will admit that I have no interest in the pagan world outside of the British Isles, although the Cunning Folk were known across Northern Europe because of the common roots on the dry North Sea plain.
Anyway, an excellent area to discuss - so many unknowns in it

Originally Posted by Animus27

I think you're confusing Mimir with Munin. Mimir is the Jotun who guarded the Well of Mimir in Jotunheim. And he was later traded as a hostage with Hoenir after the Aesir/Vanir war. And after Hoenir couldn't make a decision without consulting Mimir the Vanir grew suspicious that they had been cheated and given an oaf for a hostage, so they beheaded Mimir and sent the head back to the Aesir. And Odin preserved Mimir's head with his magic so he can ask counsel of him whenever he wishes.
Munin is the raven along with Hugin.

Lol! New it sounded like that. Was almost sure because Mimir sounds like memory phoneticallyish.

A Persons relationship with their environment is intimate and personal it comes as no surprise to me that sometimes Paganism is a solitary living experience.

It occurs to me that because such a relationship with one's Gaia is so intimate that the discussion of such might be akin to sharing details of other equally personal relationships. I am not saying that this is a difinitive answer as to why Paganism is not so regularly discussed openly but it might account for some of it.

Just thinking allowed as usual.

I think over all my desire to pick up an earthy religion comes from living so long with the complete opposite. In taoism it's hard to realize while you're practicing but it's similar to paganism only it's more associated with the heavens than the earth. The earth is almost considered a reaction of the rest of the universe and no more important, so it's almost a religion for objective spirituality. Earthy religions can only exist from the point of view from someone on earth so they help keep you grounded and in touch with the communities of both animals and people around you. I think it's good to have a balance of both, which is why I think It's time for me personally to complete my circle. Who knows what will happen next though? lol.

What I can see from here is that there is what paganism should be and what paganism is. Paganism (imo) should be a pro-community glue which works in similar ways to 'christian' camps and take aways only in ways which REALLY get nature in the groove with the community. So that the pagan community can work with the rest of the communities to help them learn the balances that they're a part of, as well as what is nature for humans to feel and how liberal with themselves they can be. Offering a new and more constructive inner-vision than what I call a self-doubt guilt based christian one.

I do however totally believe that we should entirely drop the term pagan, as it I feel it's somehow an accepted derogatory term, similar to Ni**er for african americans in america. We really shouldn't accept it at all maybe.

[norseman]

breath, dunno about a pagan community. Many pagans are solitary and have a tendency to eccentricity in one form or another, myself not an exception. As I said earlier, and agreed by Neville, the relationship with Earth is very personal and there is a high degree of ancestor respect to add to this. Over the world, you will find millions of people involved in environmental works, many of them solitary pagans, beavering away on their own projects. I was "told" by Gaia what She wanted me to do and I have been doing it for decades. The relationship is I do not own the Land, it owns me ! I am not the master but the servant.

Originally Posted by norseman

breath, dunno about a pagan community. Many pagans are solitary and have a tendency to eccentricity in one form or another, myself not an exception. As I said earlier, and agreed by Neville, the relationship with Earth is very personal and there is a high degree of ancestor respect to add to this. Over the world, you will find millions of people involved in environmental works, many of them solitary pagans, beavering away on their own projects. I was "told" by Gaia what She wanted me to do and I have been doing it for decades. The relationship is I do not own the Land, it owns me ! I am not the master but the servant.

Love it. I do agree with that as well, I don't believe that if one thing is a good way then any other is bad, so I totally agree in the solitary, or hermit pagan's way too. I think in this day and age we are quite segregated from those who would follow a similar path for good reason, in that institution has become some what of an addiction and those of us who have found ourselves slipping from it's terrible grip tend to land as droplets. It makes meeting one from our spiritual family all the more beautiful.

I still think though that there would be no harm in getting our point of view out there for our children, I have 2 step kids one of which is learning meditation techniques and how I percieve my place on earth, she loves it and I can see the powerful positive effect it's having on her psychology. It makes me think that it could help many children to be taught the modest beliefs of nature following and if it helps the children of today, there's no telling where the positive effects will stop.

I believe we have similar patterns of thought Norseman, as I also believe that we are out of the earth and are made for our servitude, not of a slave in a roman context but as another animal which plays a part in the delicate balance. I do believe that my personal skills that should be becoming more awake now that I have started on a earth path are to be practiced as the intellectual mending and caring for our mother.

Thanks everyone for the great posts.

[norseman]

Just a bit of the Land I work for - the Yorkshire Dales

Absolutely beautiful!

@Breath; I wouldn't identify as 'pagan' but I did find some of your thoughts very interesting; I think they could do with some fleshing out if you'd care to post more. I may have looked at some of these issues from similar angles.

One thing I'd chip in with is that there are links with Taoism here, in its capacity as a Chinese popular religion which is actually an extremely earthy religion. I realize that you see all the paganisms as fundamentally different, only put in a category by historical accident as it were, but Taoism isn't only about high-flown alchemies and immortality. If you read into the folklore of Taoism and look how it's practiced in communities, you could get an inspiration for how to link your other stuff to the Norse side.

Where there is a definite link that might work with your vision is in the angle of simple polytheism. Some of what you are talking about vis-a-vis fitting in with daily life is something you will find in all polytheistic approaches, because each place and act of society has accrued its deity and its way.

A book that addresses that really well IMO (sorry I'm not yet allowed to post links) is Paper's "The Deities are Many", which attempts a 'polytheistic theology' and has a lot to say about how polytheistic religions work in societies compared with monotheistic ones. What's interesting is that the author is very involved in both Native American and Traditional Chinese religions and sees the commonalities. Maybe it would be a piece of the puzzle...

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by Animus27

With that aside (which wasn't aimed at either of you lol), one of the strengths of many older, non-eastern/non-Abrahamic religions is that many of them, usually, have a mindset of embracing the world and learning your place in it, whether through good action or adoration of the gods and what have you. Rather than an attempt to escape the world and reach Heaven or Nirvana (which is an over-simplification. But it gets the point across).

This is exactly the reason why it's so interesting.
Maybe it's not really surprising that salvationist religions are products of crowded civilisations..

Great thread guys.. lots of interesting information.
Can anyone recommend me a good (preferably academic) book about western/northern paganism in ancient Europe, with a no-nonsense approach?