The ugly truth about "free will" and "sovereignity"

[ForgedInFire]

You have neither. No matter who claims to have them time and time again on this forum have yet to face this harsh truth.

" i have free will" and "we are sovereign beings"

YOU HAVE NEITHER

I fully expect to trigger many many many readers and all i have to say about this is YEA BABY!

This is not to say that you cant have them.. this is me saying, along with many true twins, psychologists and those who actually care about you how and why you actually dont have those things.

This absolutely doesnt not exclude others nor is it limited to just twin flames. This is ALL of humanity.

The first 7 years of everyones lives is a time of all the heavy programming on us. That affects us all for the rest of our lives. Buried unconsciously it affects every decision, thought and relationship choices we make.

Until one can become conscious enough to those old past things and "reprogram" ever single issue so that we may strive for our highest good.. we shall never have such things and remain slaves to the old programming. Dont lost hope it can be done with the right tools.. but it isnt overnight.

In addition to all of this.. free will still is an illusion that many lie to themselves about.

Why?

There are 3 types of " free wills"

! EGO will. this is quite obvious and isnt free at all.. it is the submitting to the ego to dictate to us along with the old programming of what "we" want. nothing free or sovereign about that is there?

2. Soul will. This is what the soul want to "do" whatever lessons and experiences it decides to have any given moment or even lifetime. This Can change at any time for any reason and WITHOUT 'our" 3d selves" consent. It is not affected by ego at all.. as there is none involved within the soul.

Nothing free or sovereign about that for a 3d ego person is there?

3 Divine will. This trumps all other "free will" There is not one single thing in this entire universe that is exempt from this in any way shape or form. Sure there can be someone who contests that.. its when you see people who are utterly miserable in life and keep having repeated "bad things" happen to them time and time again. That not coincidence. That is divine will being disobeyed and are being shown very sternly.

Nothing free or sovereign about that for a 3d ego person is there?

Some short point about other violations of "free will"

1. Blatantly forcing your unwanted opinions of ego onto other. "they are not your twin flame" "this is a karmic soulmate" SOUND FAMILIAR ANYONE? You cannot violate anyone else like this and call it "free will". You will receive what you put onto others as this is the law of karma. Iv'e seen so many reap what they sow in the course of my lifetime to know this as truth.

2. Lying, cheating, betrayal, control over others, manipulation, deceit, or in other words reptilian programming aka "service to self" are all violations against another and is not free will.


Now for this so called "sovereignity"... Until the time comes when there is no more government and the select few who are there controlling us AND when all of humanity is in service to others . We can never be sovereign until that is the everyday normal.

[Ariaecheflame]

I've been playing with these ideas of free will, sovereignty these last few days with very interesting and often frustrating results haha.

Once I uncovered some rejected aspects of myself and accepted them it was as though I walked through a gateway which opened to me and then slammed behind me straight after I went through it.

More recently as I began accepting my souls path and those elements which I bring to it - doors started to slam in my face of paths I am apparently not meant to be on. Nothing much seems to be in my control at this moment except for my reaction to things as they unfold.

Even the act of accepting the aspects and path which I had previoulsy rejected seem to happen according to perfect time.

Frequently, during the days I make plans to do certain things and as I set out roads and paths I was going to take have been quite literally blocked.
Places I frequent closed for maintenance, my path has been leading me far away from my initial planned route and destination and exactly to where I am meant to be instead.

Slowly, slowly, I am realising that I have a few options...
One is to continue to struggle against the current by saying 'no' to what the path wants to show me - this I know would cause immense soul pain though.
Two: to accept the plan that my soul and the divine have for me and work with them - with an open heart and willingness to be flexible to all matter of possibilities.

Once I stopped fighting the control for just a second, the path itself was able to move me according to its plan.

What is free will then?
Well... at this point - for me it seems to be the ability to choose my reactions to things as they unfold.

Free will is having the power to choose, is all.

There are physical, cultural, legal and now political correctness limits but within those
if you are presented with several courses of action from which you can choose
one, and do - then you're exerting your free will. Is it more complex than that?

The first 7 years of everyones lives is a time of all the heavy programming on us. That affects us all for the rest of our lives.

Didn't work. Turned me into a right little rebel. YEAH B b b babaayyyyyy

But....whatever you want to believe..... if you find a belief and no one claims it in 3 months, it's yours!

As a gnostic, divine will is within me, I helped to create it, I maintain it.



♥

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Free will is having the power to choose, is all.

There are physical, cultural, legal and now political correctness limits but within those
if you are presented with several courses of action from which you can choose
one, and do - then you're exerting your free will. Is it more complex than that?


Didn't work. Turned me into a right little rebel. YEAH B b b babaayyyyyy

But....whatever you want to believe..... if you find a belief and no one claims it in 3 months, it's yours!

As a gnostic, divine will is within me, I helped to create it, I maintain it.



♥

But the overwhelming majority of us are driven by unconscious forces, and so our actions, behaviour, choices are dictated by forces that are below the level of the conscious mind. So in that sense, can it really be said that we have 'free' will?

Originally Posted by A human Being

But the overwhelming majority of us are driven by unconscious forces, and so our actions, behaviour, choices are dictated by forces that are below the level of the conscious mind. So in that sense, can it really be said that we have 'free' will?

Well, it's certainly true that the masses are driven by social conditioning and marketing forces. Marketeers are well aware of how to tinker with people's minds to edit or curtail choice while still offering an illusion of choice. In one sense this is why sexual taboo must be preserved at all cost. Sex sells - but most people couldn't even start to recognise the symbols. They become more apparent if you set out to look for them which most people don't because it's more comforting not to. I'm not being cynical. It's one aspect of how marketing works.

But for those with a broader self-awareness; those who have driven through the morass of illusion to discover it for what it is, are usually conscious of what's behind each of a range of choices they could make. Does mean one's on the lookout for further illusion - no use me deluding myself that I'm "free of illusion" when something new might crop up. But that's spiritual development for you.

So as I see it, my free will is constrained but within the constraints I can freely exercise it "to the best of my knowledge and ability."

All of which I suppose is part of self-development (to most, spiritual development) so you rise above the mechanics of the mundane while getting to know them so you can negotiate your way through "untouched" so to speak. People can "grow" their awareness. They can see how puppet-like they are and cut the strings.

Just my views though.



♥

[jro5139]

Originally Posted by emeraldheart

I've been playing with these ideas of free will, sovereignty these last few days with very interesting and often frustrating results haha.

Once I uncovered some rejected aspects of myself and accepted them it was as though I walked through a gateway which opened to me and then slammed behind me straight after I went through it.

More recently as I began accepting my souls path and those elements which I bring to it - doors started to slam in my face of paths I am apparently not meant to be on. Nothing much seems to be in my control at this moment except for my reaction to things as they unfold.

Even the act of accepting the aspects and path which I had previoulsy rejected seem to happen according to perfect time.

Frequently, during the days I make plans to do certain things and as I set out roads and paths I was going to take have been quite literally blocked.
Places I frequent closed for maintenance, my path has been leading me far away from my initial planned route and destination and exactly to where I am meant to be instead.

Slowly, slowly, I am realising that I have a few options...
One is to continue to struggle against the current by saying 'no' to what the path wants to show me - this I know would cause immense soul pain though.
Two: to accept the plan that my soul and the divine have for me and work with them - with an open heart and willingness to be flexible to all matter of possibilities.

Once I stopped fighting the control for just a second, the path itself was able to move me according to its plan.

What is free will then?
Well... at this point - for me it seems to be the ability to choose my reactions to things as they unfold.

I relate to what you are saying so much. Since meeting my twin flame (who I have been told by some is not my tf), I have been sent down this path, that seems to be the path I was always supposed to be on...
I def deviated from it for about the first half of my adult life, and I can relate, as fif stated, things continuously went wrong. It seemed like I was always in an uphill battle, things didn't flow or go smoothly. Since getting on this path, things flow, and when I truly need something, it comes, smoothly.
I have also noticed that when I try to plan things that are not in alignment with the path, they don't happen, period.
It seems the universe is determined to keep me on this path, now that I finally found it.
I have also experienced resistance, or what seems like, downright, attacks. But those seem different than the universe's resistance, because those can't stop me. All they can do is use stress and fear to slow us down and deviate us from our path. Fear is their biggest tool, they have no real power other than using your own mind against you. Also, several times in my life I have been set up, nothing super- major, but def a set- up to make my life more difficult than it needed to be. I have also experienced at least one instance, when Divine Will simply swooped in and saved me from something much worse happening.
And I'm not talking about a path to be with any one person, I'm talking about what I'm really supposed to be doing in my life. Meeting my tf sent me on that path, I don't think it would have happened without him.
Even though with the signs, dreams and things, it feels somewhat like the universe set me up to do what I was supposed to do. I even experienced another aspect of my soul that came out. It felt like an aspect of my soul, but what I was experiencing was not something that I (this person writing this), felt or thought or wanted. It seemed like another aspect of my soul took over at times to make sure that happened too. I'm not sure what it was, I'm still trying to figure it out. I thought maybe a soul- exchange or a walk-in but that doesn't seem quite right. More like an aspect of my over-soul.
I will say, that when I was totally off my Divine plan, it seemed like I could just will random things to happen more. Now they have to be in alignment or it won't happen it seems like.

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Well, it's certainly true that the masses are driven by social conditioning and marketing forces. Marketeers are well aware of how to tinker with people's minds to edit or curtail choice while still offering an illusion of choice. In one sense this is why sexual taboo must be preserved at all cost. Sex sells - but most people couldn't even start to recognise the symbols. They become more apparent if you set out to look for them which most people don't because it's more comforting not to. I'm not being cynical. It's one aspect of how marketing works.

Not cynical at all, no, I'd call that an accurate assessment - the cynicism belongs to the marketeers. Frightening, really, the insidious nature of the messages we're fed by our consumer culture.

I'm curious about the sex-related symbols you mentioned - what kinds of things are you talking about?

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

But for those with a broader self-awareness; those who have driven through the morass of illusion to discover it for what it is, are usually conscious of what's behind each of a range of choices they could make. Does mean one's on the lookout for further illusion - no use me deluding myself that I'm "free of illusion" when something new might crop up. But that's spiritual development for you.

So as I see it, my free will is constrained but within the constraints I can freely exercise it "to the best of my knowledge and ability."

All of which I suppose is part of self-development (to most, spiritual development) so you rise above the mechanics of the mundane while getting to know them so you can negotiate your way through "untouched" so to speak. People can "grow" their awareness. They can see how puppet-like they are and cut the strings.

Just my views though.



♥

Mm, discernment comes with increased self-awareness, and actually it seems to me that the range of choices gets narrower and narrower, the more self-aware I am, until I'm subject to the phenomenon known in certain spiritual circles as 'choiceless choice' - there's a plethora of potential missteps, and then what's left is the one 'right' choice. This depends on the extent to which - and I'm pretty sure you're going to hate this expression, if my impression of you is correct - I'm 'in alignment' with myself, meaning I'm not internally being pushed and pulled around by conflicting impulses and beliefs.

Just how I see it

[Aldous]

Philosophers have been debating the question "does mankind have freewill" for centuries. BTW, what came first, the chicken or the egg?

Reptiles have been laying eggs long before there were any chickens, so it must be the egg.

Originally Posted by A human Being

I'm curious about the sex-related symbols you mentioned - what kinds of things are you talking about?

2 problems. 1 – it’s a huge subject with a long history wandering through unsubtle, subtle and back to today, increasingly explicit. Brand executives are fully aware that blatant images rarely work alone, even with males.
2 – I can’t mention people, brands and campaigns here (often to do with copyright) but I’ll PM you a some links that deal with it at various levels and epochs. Otherwise I'd be writing a thesis that would be deleted because examples are inevitable.

It branches into 3 main topics – the image, the caption or logo and brand identity symbols, and the physical packaging, music too with video. Bringing these together is usually complicated and has to be done quickly esp with new products that can leak to competitors.

Packaging is an interesting one. Ask for instance why females are generally attracted to squeezy plastic bottles for kitchen and bathroom products. It goes back to a campaign by a washing-up liquid firm. They wanted to test which package would sell better: a squeezy plastic cylindrical one pointed at the top; or a more rigid plastic one roughly the same shape, maybe they had a different shape – I forget and the study was long ago. (Still mentioned on google I see). Well, you know how these people work. You don’t give each tester one of each bottle and ask which bottle they preferred. You put the same stuff in both bottles but in one the liquid is coloured slightly differently. You tell the testers that one bottle contains brand A, the other, brand B. Which brand did they like the best. The only variable is the bottle. The results came back overwhelmingly in favour of the squeezy bottle. Of course, the analysts crept out of the woodwork but a consensus was reached about squeezy bottles.

Semiotics (signs) deal with the ideas signified by the whole presentation, brand identity and the importance of consumers associating personal identity with a brand.

You often find ads sexually weighted but omitting the product altogether, just giving the corporate logo. The whole aim is to awaken latent desires no matter what is suggested.

Crikey, it’s even got into classical music marketing. Here’s one of a famous violist.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....14oUKLTBGL.jpg

Mild, it shouldn’t offend anyone. The disc is on sale with this cover from major retailers.

Hope that all makes sense!

♥

[Freekre8]